2014 Ottawa Senators Off Season Talk

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:He can't justify any raises as spending this year really. Lehner and Zibanejad is it?  Maybe Michalek who could even end up being a pay cut, but that won't do it at all.  We'll get someone but I doubt it's statsny.

They got Ryan when Alfie left; you don't think they would try to make a big splash if they move Spezza?

That's what I mean, there's no way Melnyk can justify not spending some money.

Ev wrote:People who think the Sens would be rebuilding if they traded Spezza are nuts.

Seriously, the rebuilding is done, it's all tweeking at this point and a little luck that all the players develop at a decent rate and close to their ceilings.  Franchise goalie?  Got it.  Franchise D man?  Got it.  #1 center and depth down the middle?  Got it.  Goal scoring wingers?  Got em.  Organizational depth?  Got it.  There are some pieces missing but that's the tweeking.

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:People who think the Sens would be rebuilding if they traded Spezza are nuts.

Seriously, the rebuilding is done, it's all tweeking at this point and a little luck that all the players develop at a decent rate and close to their ceilings.  Franchise goalie?  Got it.  Franchise D man?  Got it.  #1 center and depth down the middle?  Got it.  Goal scoring wingers?  Got em.  Organizational depth?  Got it.  There are some pieces missing but that's the tweeking.

Goal scoring wingers, plural? One top notch scoring winger that I can think of in Ryan, one mid-level scorer in MacArthur, then...?

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:People who think the Sens would be rebuilding if they traded Spezza are nuts.

Seriously, the rebuilding is done, it's all tweeking at this point and a little luck that all the players develop at a decent rate and close to their ceilings.  Franchise goalie?  Got it.  Franchise D man?  Got it.  #1 center and depth down the middle?  Got it.  Goal scoring wingers?  Got em.  Organizational depth?  Got it.  There are some pieces missing but that's the tweeking.

Goal scoring wingers, plural?  One top notch scoring winger that I can think of in Ryan, one mid-level scorer in MacArthur, then...?

The young Stoner.

Ev wrote:Spezza bounced back as the year went on, and if he's given the chance to next year, and he stays healthy, he will bounce back to being one of the top 10 - 15 players in the league. If the Sens want to compete he's going to be a very important part of that, if the Sens don't want to compete they'll move him and we're in for a few rough years.

  

We should get a nice close-up view since he's probably headed to The Big Smoke.

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:People who think the Sens would be rebuilding if they traded Spezza are nuts.

Seriously, the rebuilding is done, it's all tweeking at this point and a little luck that all the players develop at a decent rate and close to their ceilings.  Franchise goalie?  Got it.  Franchise D man?  Got it.  #1 center and depth down the middle?  Got it.  Goal scoring wingers?  Got em.  Organizational depth?  Got it.  There are some pieces missing but that's the tweeking.

I don't think they ever "rebuilt"(in the traditional sense) to begin with, since they kept a lot of vets.

They'll always be "tweaking" until they win a Cup. Player development is a crapshoot and not all of them will hit their "target" so there'll be adjustments based on that.

Even then team on paper != team on the ice. They can look good on parer but they actually have to show it in the postseason.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:People who think the Sens would be rebuilding if they traded Spezza are nuts.

Seriously, the rebuilding is done, it's all tweeking at this point and a little luck that all the players develop at a decent rate and close to their ceilings.  Franchise goalie?  Got it.  Franchise D man?  Got it.  #1 center and depth down the middle?  Got it.  Goal scoring wingers?  Got em.  Organizational depth?  Got it.  There are some pieces missing but that's the tweeking.

Goal scoring wingers, plural?  One top notch scoring winger that I can think of in Ryan, one mid-level scorer in MacArthur, then...?

MacArthur scores 20 plus every year, he's a goal scorer.  Stone will be as well but that has yet to be seen.  Pretty sure Murray is also going to land Stewart so there is another potentially.

Hoags wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:People who think the Sens would be rebuilding if they traded Spezza are nuts.

Seriously, the rebuilding is done, it's all tweeking at this point and a little luck that all the players develop at a decent rate and close to their ceilings.  Franchise goalie?  Got it.  Franchise D man?  Got it.  #1 center and depth down the middle?  Got it.  Goal scoring wingers?  Got em.  Organizational depth?  Got it.  There are some pieces missing but that's the tweeking.

I don't think they ever "rebuilt"(in the traditional sense) to begin with, since they kept a lot of vets.

They'll always be "tweaking" until they win a Cup.  Player development is a crapshoot and not all of them will hit their "target" so there'll be adjustments based on that.

Even then team on paper != team on the ice.  They can look good on parer but they actually have to show it in the postseason.

That's a fair comment but it goes the other way too, a guy could bust then a guy like (as an example) Dzingle comes in becomes a Pavaelski type. 

Anyways, as is, without Spezza I still think the Sens push for a playoff spot next year.  Add in a few more guys and hopefully they can build to a team that is competing for the division sooner rather than later.

wprager wrote:

spader wrote:

wprager wrote:
That's a hell of an expensive 4th line.  As much as I like Greening, you can't pay a 4th liner $2.6M.   Didn't Murray mention that at the deadline the player asked for the most by other GMs was Greening?  If not for the cap floor, I think Greening would be on the move.  Heck, even *with* the floor issue, we need a player like Greening to play in the top six.  And if it's not Greening then they have to move him and get someone who can play that role on the 2nd line.

I don't even know what to say about Smith any more.  He's not done as much as he needs to the last couple of years.  Still a good player but I don't think he's progressed from 2 years ago.

Why the hell not? Should they also renegotiate Hoff and Stone's contracts because they're being underpaid to play on the 3rd line? You're being silly.

Are you seriously comparing 2-way ELCs to Greening's contract?  Who's being silly now?

You. Your position is myopic. Of course they can have a 4th liner making $2.6 if that's what makes sense. My point was that considering the cost of the 3rd line, it's not the worst thing in the world to have a player making what Greening makes on that line. You're looking at it in isolation. I suggested (sarcastically) that under your reasoning, we should pay the 3rd liners more.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:People who think the Sens would be rebuilding if they traded Spezza are nuts.

Seriously, the rebuilding is done, it's all tweeking at this point and a little luck that all the players develop at a decent rate and close to their ceilings.  Franchise goalie?  Got it.  Franchise D man?  Got it.  #1 center and depth down the middle?  Got it.  Goal scoring wingers?  Got em.  Organizational depth?  Got it.  There are some pieces missing but that's the tweeking.

Goal scoring wingers, plural?  One top notch scoring winger that I can think of in Ryan, one mid-level scorer in MacArthur, then...?

MacArthur scores 20 plus every year, he's a goal scorer.  Stone will be as well but that has yet to be seen.  Pretty sure Murray is also going to land Stewart so there is another potentially.

So...again, MacArthur and Ryan as it stands right now and potentially Stone and maybe we acquire an enigmatic forward this summer or maybe we don't.

Still a glaring need for goal scoring wingers in Ottawa. That and a top pairing, minute eating, play in all situations D-man.

Defence is a glaring need. They had little trouble scoring this year but lots of trouble keeping the puck out of the net.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:People who think the Sens would be rebuilding if they traded Spezza are nuts.

Seriously, the rebuilding is done, it's all tweeking at this point and a little luck that all the players develop at a decent rate and close to their ceilings.  Franchise goalie?  Got it.  Franchise D man?  Got it.  #1 center and depth down the middle?  Got it.  Goal scoring wingers?  Got em.  Organizational depth?  Got it.  There are some pieces missing but that's the tweeking.

Goal scoring wingers, plural?  One top notch scoring winger that I can think of in Ryan, one mid-level scorer in MacArthur, then...?

MacArthur scores 20 plus every year, he's a goal scorer.  Stone will be as well but that has yet to be seen.  Pretty sure Murray is also going to land Stewart so there is another potentially.

ya by the sounds of it it's more of a matter of how much is it going to cost us rather then if. that said come the off season there might be a few more teams interested in trading for the guy. i wouldn't bet all my money on it happening.

Regardless of what may or may not happen with Chris Stewart, the Sens are really light in the winger-who-can-score department right now. Stone looks like he'll be a solid player, but you can't count him in that department until he has a productive season under his belt.

Mac and Ryan are all we have - and that has to change this summer for us to do anything positive - and it will, probably in the Spezza trade.

I wish we could get Glencross from Calgary.

Or the real pipedream of Glencross + Giordano

Hoags wrote:Defence is a glaring need.  They had little trouble scoring this year but lots of trouble keeping the puck out of the net.

I doubt they do much with the D. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised and see a top pairing D-man coming our way, but I don't see anyone letting one up. I think they'll chalk this year up to Cowen having the year off last year and not really getting it together fully and Wiercioch being misused by MacLean.

Gryba took a step back and then a giant step forward, so he's solid as a rock as of the right now. Phillips is fine. Karlsson will be a lot better next year than he was this year, I doubt anyone would say anything differently. Methot is a good player, so if he's still here, I think he'll be solid right off the hop with no Olympic Dung hanging over him. Boro is a solid, young player who plays the game hard and right - like Gryba basically. Ceci will continue to grow, hopefully he has a great summer of training after the Bingo playoffs and comes back much stronger.

If Murray gets someone like Berglund who can play a 200 foot game and we add another winger who also 'gets' playing all three zones, I think you'll see the defence cleaned up quite nicely (hopefully).

Boedker out of Phoenix IMO would be the best possible return.

Hoags wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:People who think the Sens would be rebuilding if they traded Spezza are nuts.

Seriously, the rebuilding is done, it's all tweeking at this point and a little luck that all the players develop at a decent rate and close to their ceilings.  Franchise goalie?  Got it.  Franchise D man?  Got it.  #1 center and depth down the middle?  Got it.  Goal scoring wingers?  Got em.  Organizational depth?  Got it.  There are some pieces missing but that's the tweeking.

I don't think they ever "rebuilt"(in the traditional sense) to begin with, since they kept a lot of vets.

They'll always be "tweaking" until they win a Cup.  Player development is a crapshoot and not all of them will hit their "target" so there'll be adjustments based on that.

Even then team on paper != team on the ice.  They can look good on parer but they actually have to show it in the postseason.

They were great on paper back in September.

Trading away your #1 center, highest paid player and the guy wearing the 'C' is hardly tweaking.

spader wrote:
You. Your position is myopic. Of course they can have a 4th liner making $2.6 if that's what makes sense. My point was that considering the cost of the 3rd line, it's not the worst thing in the world to have a player making what Greening makes on that line. You're looking at it in isolation. I suggested (sarcastically) that under your reasoning, we should pay the 3rd liners more.

I don't make the rules, I just observe them. If a guy is making that much and playing on the 4th line it means something. That something is the club can save some money by replacing him with a hungry rookie or two (in a rotation). That extra money can then be applied in other areas.