Melnyk's Financial Woes: Melnyk's Budget Edition

Alfie did quit on the team which is why I don't miss him all that much.

Does anyone here remember the Alfie who would guarantee victories? Instead we had an Alfie who said we probably won't come back in a series ?

He lost his faith in the team and maybe after 17 years with the team and only 1 SCF appearance to show for it I don't blame him too much for thinking it's not going to happen for him here.

Bottom line is we're better off without him if his heart really wasn't in it. It shouldn't have happened this way but what can you do?

I don't think this will impact his legacy much. In a few years the anger will largely die down and #11 will be hanging from the rafters at the CTC.

Melnyk is a liar and a businessman through and through. 2 words are probably interchangeable to be honest. Either way, I am not defending Melnyk by any means nor do I support him in any way I just refuse to make something out of basically nothing when there is nothing to talk about. If I thought finances were crippling the Sens I would say it but they aren't at all.

Alfie got selfish and left after he lost faith in the Sens. Sens are better off and again, that's all I actually care about.

Hoags wrote:Alfie did quit on the team which is why I don't miss him all that much.

Does anyone here remember the Alfie who would guarantee victories? Instead we had an Alfie who said we probably won't come back in a series ?

He lost his faith in the team and maybe after 17 years with the team and only 1 SCF appearance to show for it I don't blame him too much for thinking it's not going to happen for him here.

Bottom line is we're better off without him if his heart really wasn't in it.  It shouldn't have happened this way but what can you do?

I don't think this will impact his legacy much.  In a few years the anger will largely die down and #11 will be hanging from the rafters at the CTC.

Looking back at things now with everything that he's done, he's probably a big reason for that. Took him until 2007 to show any kind of emotion on the ice.

NEELY wrote:
Looking back at things now with everything that he's done, he's probably a big reason for that.  Took him until 2007 to show any kind of emotion on the ice.

Hey that's how he was as a player and a person. I don't think you can blame him for that, you can easily blame team management for the team they surrounded him with all those years and the goalie graveyard we had. It's not any single person's fault why the Sens didn't win a Cup when we were poised to do so years ago.

NEELY wrote:Melnyk is a liar and a businessman through and through.  2 words are probably interchangeable to be honest.  Either way, I am not defending Melnyk by any means nor do I support him in any way I just refuse to make something out of basically nothing when there is nothing to talk about.  If I thought finances were crippling the Sens I would say it but they aren't at all.

Alfie got selfish and left after he lost faith in the Sens. Sens are better off and again, that's all I actually care about.

And this is why I said couldn't OR didn't want to (spend) because I think it's latter. In either case it's the same result, isn't it. If he doesn't have the money, Spezza and Ryan are gone. If he doesn't want to spend the money, Spezza and Ryan are gone.

Melnyk always seems to groom the fans to expect little spending and a plucky underdog team.

Hoags wrote:

NEELY wrote:
Looking back at things now with everything that he's done, he's probably a big reason for that.  Took him until 2007 to show any kind of emotion on the ice.

Hey that's how he was as a player and a person.  I don't think you can blame him for that, you can easily blame team management for the team they surrounded him with all those years and the goalie graveyard we had.  It's not any single person's fault why the Sens didn't win a Cup when we were poised to do so years ago.

I would say Muckler is about as close as it gets but either way, Alfie had more than enough talent to play with.

SeawaySensFan wrote:
Melnyk always seems to groom the fans to expect little spending and a plucky underdog team.

Exactly.  What are the odds that players want to sign/re-sign here long term when they will "always" be a underdog ?

Spending to the cap doesn't not guarantee success but spending near the floor pretty much ensures you won't go far.

Ever since the salary cap came into existence, no team in the bottom 1/3rd of NHL payroll has made the SCF. I believe two teams have made the conference finals(one was Carolina forget the other).

Hoags wrote:Alfie was overpaid by Detroit, but salaries are going up.  Sure it wasn't worth to pay him that much but we couldn't afford to do so anyway.

It's not that the team didn't want to pay him that much, they couldn't(whether they wanted to or not).  And we're talking about $1.5M-$2M dollar difference here with plenty of cap space.  It shouldn't be a deal breaker but it was.

Alfie wouldn't give the team a discount(again).  What are the chances Spezza and Ryan do? Because I don't think this team can afford to give what they can get on the open market.

Alfie was a big NHLPA supporter during the lockout, it wouldn't surprise me if he laughed his Donkey off at Melnyk crying poor and went elsewhere.

Geez, you guys (anti-Melnyk) just aren't getting it. It wasn't a negotiation. Alfie's camp came in (hot) with $6x2 and Murray said no (completely reasonable). There was no more talk after this. It's not like Alfie reduced his demands to $5.5M for 1 year and Murray said, "best we can do it $5M or we cannot afford Ryan".

It was about pride and money -- and you know that pride comes before the fall.

Now Melnyk (right or wrong -- your choice) is trying to tell the public that it was either Ryan with Alfie taking a discount, or Alfie and no Ryan. He's trying to appease the paying public. That's all. You cannot make determinations on the financial health of either the Senators or Melnyk based on comments made on a radio show.

Forbes (whose analysis I trust a hell of a lot more than Yost, and whose word I believe more than Melnyk without his lawyer behind him, his left hand on the Bible and saying "Yes, your honor" as he sits down) estimates the Sens EBITDA (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, amortization) to be $14.5M. Now, granted, the team is heavily leveraged so the "A" part of EBITDA could be quite high. But in general, this team is not losing money. And, of course, the CTC is making money on concerts as well. Last time I checked, Selena Gomez, Justin Bieber, Sir Paul McCartney, Fleetwood Mack all sell out and usually a lot quicker than I can try to get tickets. So we have the demographic to sell out both teeny bopper and old geezer concerts. It's not like Ottawa is having a tough time drawing big names. Melnyk said he owned 7 "other companies" and I was wondering, after Trimel and Biopur, what these were Well, maybe one of them is the company running the Canadian Tire Center -- it's doing pretty well, I think.

Hoags wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:
Melnyk always seems to groom the fans to expect little spending and a plucky underdog team.

Exactly.  What are the odds that players want to sign/re-sign here long term when they will "always" be a underdog ?

I guess we'll find out in 2 years or sooner.

wprager wrote:
Geez, you guys (anti-Melnyk) just aren't getting it.  It wasn't a negotiation.  

Oh no I get it. The fact there was no negotiation tells me he wasn't all big on coming back either. Players who want to re-sign instruct their agent to negotiate well into the night and find a way to make it work. If Alfie really wanted to stay, him and Barry would have negotiated long and hard and found a way to make it work, the same way they found a way to make it work on his past contracts.

Alfie and Barry asked for that much because they knew other teams would pay that much. We couldn't afford it and they probably knew it. That's the concern here.

Spezza and Ryan's agent will know what they can get on the market 2 years from now and it does not look like we'll be able to offer anything close to that at this point. We'll see what happens but I am not encouraged from what I read.

wprager wrote:

Hoags wrote:Alfie was overpaid by Detroit, but salaries are going up.  Sure it wasn't worth to pay him that much but we couldn't afford to do so anyway.

It's not that the team didn't want to pay him that much, they couldn't(whether they wanted to or not).  And we're talking about $1.5M-$2M dollar difference here with plenty of cap space.  It shouldn't be a deal breaker but it was.

Alfie wouldn't give the team a discount(again).  What are the chances Spezza and Ryan do? Because I don't think this team can afford to give what they can get on the open market.

Alfie was a big NHLPA supporter during the lockout, it wouldn't surprise me if he laughed his Donkey off at Melnyk crying poor and went elsewhere.

Geez, you guys (anti-Melnyk) just aren't getting it.  It wasn't a negotiation.  Alfie's camp came in (hot) with $6x2 and Murray said no (completely reasonable).  There was no more talk after this.  It's not like Alfie reduced his demands to $5.5M for 1 year and Murray said, "best we can do it $5M or we cannot afford Ryan".  

It was about pride and money -- and you know that pride comes before the fall.

Now Melnyk (right or wrong -- your choice) is trying to tell the public that it was either Ryan with Alfie taking a discount, or Alfie and no Ryan.  He's trying to appease the paying public.  That's all.  You cannot make determinations on the financial health of either the Senators or Melnyk based on comments made on a radio show.

Forbes (whose analysis I trust a hell of a lot more than Yost, and whose word I believe more than Melnyk without his lawyer behind him, his left hand on the Bible and saying "Yes, your honor" as he sits down) estimates the Sens EBITDA (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, amortization) to be $14.5M.  Now, granted, the team is heavily leveraged so the "A" part of EBITDA could be quite high.  But in general, this team is not losing money.  And, of course, the CTC is making money on concerts as well.  Last time I checked, Selena Gomez, Justin Bieber, Sir Paul McCartney, Fleetwood Mack all sell out and usually a lot quicker than I can try to get tickets.  So we have the demographic to sell out both teeny bopper and old geezer concerts.  It's not like Ottawa is having a tough time drawing big names.  Melnyk said he owned 7 "other companies" and I was wondering, after Trimel and Biopur, what these were  Well, maybe one of them is the company running the Canadian Tire Center -- it's doing pretty well, I think.

Olivann Beauty, Fusion Brands...

SeawaySensFan wrote:

NEELY wrote:Melnyk is a liar and a businessman through and through.  2 words are probably interchangeable to be honest.  Either way, I am not defending Melnyk by any means nor do I support him in any way I just refuse to make something out of basically nothing when there is nothing to talk about.  If I thought finances were crippling the Sens I would say it but they aren't at all.

Alfie got selfish and left after he lost faith in the Sens. Sens are better off and again, that's all I actually care about.

And this is why I said couldn't OR didn't want to (spend) because I think it's latter. In either case it's the same result, isn't it. If he doesn't have the money, Spezza and Ryan are gone. If he doesn't want to spend the money, Spezza and Ryan are gone.

Melnyk always seems to groom the fans to expect little spending and a plucky underdog team.

Not wanting to spend money on a 41 year old is one thing; not wanting to spend money on a 40-goal scorer (if that is what Ryan turns into playing top-3 minutes with the best passer in the league), that's entirely different.

As for Spezza, by the time his next contract negotiations roll around he'll either be in the declining years of his career or will have solidified his place as the second highest (current) PPG Canadian player. With Ryan on his side and a back that's not stiffening up on him he could have back-to-back 100 point seasons. But even so, he'd be 34 years old with a history of back surgeries, so I doubt anyone gives him $7M. But you never know. Personally, I think the time is overdue to start developing a future #1 center. Turris isn't it. Zibanejad may not get much of a chance to play center. Don't think we have anyone in the pipeline, either. So I'm a bit worried -- not so much that Spezza will be gone after 2015-16, but that he will no-longer be a true #1, and we won't have anyone to take over.

wprager wrote:
Not wanting to spend money on a 41 year old is one thing; not wanting to spend money on a 40-goal scorer (if that is what Ryan turns into playing top-3 minutes with the best passer in the league), that's entirely different.

It's not a question of wanting, Melnyk gives the impression the team cannot afford to pay more than a set amount.  Period.

Either he is lying or this team cannot spend more without going into the red.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

NEELY wrote:Melnyk is a liar and a businessman through and through.  2 words are probably interchangeable to be honest.  Either way, I am not defending Melnyk by any means nor do I support him in any way I just refuse to make something out of basically nothing when there is nothing to talk about.  If I thought finances were crippling the Sens I would say it but they aren't at all.

Alfie got selfish and left after he lost faith in the Sens. Sens are better off and again, that's all I actually care about.

And this is why I said couldn't OR didn't want to (spend) because I think it's latter. In either case it's the same result, isn't it. If he doesn't have the money, Spezza and Ryan are gone. If he doesn't want to spend the money, Spezza and Ryan are gone.

Melnyk always seems to groom the fans to expect little spending and a plucky underdog team.

If Spezza and Ryan walked in 2 years, yah we will be having a different convo. Doesn't mean he won't be spending in 2 years though and even then he still needs to spend something. We'll see in 2 years but I doubt they let those guys slip away.

People can bury their heads in the sand all they want. I said weeks ago that we couldn't have afforded both Alfie and Ryan, and people said that was stupid. Well, now Melnyk has said the same thing. And guess what? We have the SECOND LOWEST payroll in the NHL. The only team that spends less is the Islanders. So maybe it's not the biggest deal right now when we still have a great young team, but what happens when we need to resign Spezza, Ryan, Cowen, Z-Bad, etc etc etc. You think Melnyk is magically going to pony up the cash THEN, when he wouldn't pony it up to retain the best player in Senators history? Right. Put your head back in the sand.

tim1_2 wrote:People can bury their heads in the sand all they want.  I said weeks ago that we couldn't have afforded both Alfie and Ryan, and people said that was stupid.  Well, now Melnyk has said the same thing.  And guess what?  We have the SECOND LOWEST payroll in the NHL.  The only team that spends less is the Islanders.  So maybe it's not the biggest deal right now when we still have a great young team, but what happens when we need to resign Spezza, Ryan, Cowen, Z-Bad, etc etc etc.  You think Melnyk is magically going to pony up the cash THEN, when he wouldn't pony it up to retain the best player in Senators history?  Right.  Put your head back in the sand.

Yeah because 2 years of revenue makes a BIG difference.

Saying he wouldn't "retain the best player in Sens history" is stupid, because the current version of the player is nowhere near where he was before. Doesn't matter how "legendary he is". Time to move on bub.

Hoags wrote:

wprager wrote:
Geez, you guys (anti-Melnyk) just aren't getting it.  It wasn't a negotiation.  

Oh no I get it.  The fact there was no negotiation tells me he wasn't all big on coming back either.  Players who want to re-sign instruct their agent to negotiate well into the night and find a way to make it work.  If Alfie really wanted to stay, him and Barry would have negotiated long and hard and found a way to make it work, the same way they found a way to make it work on his past contracts.

Alfie and Barry asked for that much because they knew other teams would pay that much.  We couldn't afford it and they probably knew it.  That's the concern here.

Spezza and Ryan's agent will know what they can get on the market 2 years from now and it does not look like we'll be able to offer anything close to that at this point.  We'll see what happens but I am not encouraged from what I read.

Again, Spezza is at a 7 million cap hit and we can afford him RIGHT NOW. He will not get more than that in two years.

Ev wrote:
Yeah because 2 years of revenue makes a BIG difference.

Saying he wouldn't "retain the best player in Sens history" is stupid, because the current version of the player is nowhere near where he was before. Doesn't matter how "legendary he is". Time to move on bub.

1) Where's the money going to come from ? The cap and floor are going up and our ticket prices are pretty much the same,

2) Again, he couldn't afford to pay his asking price.  Alfie had to take less for the Sens to get Ryan.  It's not a stretch to think that Spezza and/or Ryan will have to take less for both to stay.

Ev wrote:
Again, Spezza is at a 7 million cap hit and we can afford him RIGHT NOW. He will not get more than that in two years.

It's not about the cap hit, it's about the $$.  I'm not really worried about Spezza but Ryan(who will get a lot more) and fitting both of them into whatever the budget will be.

Resigning Spezza might not be a good idea if he blows his back out again as well.

I also think Michalek is most likely gone as well.

The fact that they seem to have so little budget flexibility will make things very difficult.