So long Alfie... What's next?

tim1_2 wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:We're a better team with Alfie, and the only reason we don't have him AND Ryan AND MacArthur is because Melnyk is in financial trouble and/or a cheap bastard.

Or because your beloved ex-Captain didn't believe in your team and saw a chance to make $$ and try for a Cup while leaving the team he mentored into contention blowing in the wind.

One or the other.

True or false, we have an internal budget that restricts us from spending anywhere near the cap?

I have no idea, but what I do know is Melnyk was willing to shell out for Alfie + Ryan, which is about 13 million bucks.  I also know that the Sens were willing to pay Alfie and I also know that spending to the cap rarely means wins.

Your hilariously naive, and can't prove that we could've had Alfie and Ryan.  We pulled the trigger on the Ryan deal because we HAD to to try and save some face.  If this is something Murray has been working on for a long time (and he has), why did it not happen until Alfie was officially gone?

Also, 5.5 + 5.5 = 11, not 13.

Also, the past three cup winners have spent within $3M of the cap.

They worked on it well before Alfie left, it was apparently a long time in the works - if you listen to guys like Mendes, which I would.  Unlike a video game you don't just make a trade in this league, especially not one of that magnitude, it takes a long time of back and forth before you reach an agreement.  In this case, it was apparently two roster players and a 2nd rounder, no idea who those players are, don't even want to speculate, but it must have been a doozy if no Noesen and no 1st was attached.

You can put the cap argument on the table until you're blue in the face, but I watched the Sens suck balls when they spent to the cap and I watched an owner get quite annoyed and tell Murray to clean this Dung up.  And he did - and we don't need to be at the cap right now.

Why do you want to be at the cap so badly, anyway?  What is it you want to add to this team that can't be added either at the deadline, or next off-season?  And when was the last time Melnyk didn't step up and sign a guy?  Heatley, check.  Spezza, check.  Karlsson, check.  Anderson, check.  Turris, check.  What is it you want, Tim?

tim1_2 wrote:[

Also, the past three cup winners have spent within $3M of the cap.

Leafs, Flyers, Rangers, Canucks (and many others) all spent to the cap. Just spending to the cap doesn't guarantee anything.

SpezDispenser wrote:
Why do you want to be at the cap so badly, anyway?  What is it you want to add to this team that can't be added either at the deadline, or next off-season?  And when was the last time Melnyk didn't step up and sign a guy?  Heatley, check.  Spezza, check.  Karlsson, check.  Anderson, check.  Turris, check.  What is it you want, Tim?

The cap was a lot lower back then. As NHL revenues and the salary cap goes up the team has to bring in more money to spend more without going into the red. Where is the money supposed to come from?

Hoags wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:
Why do you want to be at the cap so badly, anyway?  What is it you want to add to this team that can't be added either at the deadline, or next off-season?  And when was the last time Melnyk didn't step up and sign a guy?  Heatley, check.  Spezza, check.  Karlsson, check.  Anderson, check.  Turris, check.  What is it you want, Tim?

The cap was a lot lower back then.  As NHL revenues and the salary cap goes up the team has to bring in more money to spend more without going into the red.  Where is the money supposed to come from?

It comes from moving the arena somewhere downtown. Obviously just a pipe dream and will never happen, but I think the location of the arena really hurts revenues for the Sens. Sure, they make a ton in parking, but the in-game and post-game experience suffers by not having a team close to the 'nightlife' of the city. I think downtown Ottawa suffers as well. Those Saturday night home games in Ottawa would be amazing for the fans and businesses in and around the arena. Le Breton flights would have been perfect.

Hoags wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:
Why do you want to be at the cap so badly, anyway?  What is it you want to add to this team that can't be added either at the deadline, or next off-season?  And when was the last time Melnyk didn't step up and sign a guy?  Heatley, check.  Spezza, check.  Karlsson, check.  Anderson, check.  Turris, check.  What is it you want, Tim?

The cap was a lot lower back then.  As NHL revenues and the salary cap goes up the team has to bring in more money to spend more without going into the red.  Where is the money supposed to come from?

What was the cap? 60? 57? I honestly can't remember. My point was, Melnyk has always stepped up and always paid guys when it was time to. Give me an example of when he didn't.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Hoags wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:
Why do you want to be at the cap so badly, anyway?  What is it you want to add to this team that can't be added either at the deadline, or next off-season?  And when was the last time Melnyk didn't step up and sign a guy?  Heatley, check.  Spezza, check.  Karlsson, check.  Anderson, check.  Turris, check.  What is it you want, Tim?

The cap was a lot lower back then.  As NHL revenues and the salary cap goes up the team has to bring in more money to spend more without going into the red.  Where is the money supposed to come from?

What was the cap?  60?  57?  I honestly can't remember.  My point was, Melnyk has always stepped up and always paid guys when it was time to.  Give me an example of when he didn't.

The Alfie - 2013.

SpezDispenser wrote:
What was the cap?  60?  57?  I honestly can't remember.  My point was, Melnyk has always stepped up and always paid guys when it was time to.  Give me an example of when he didn't.

The salary cap in 07-08 was 50.3 million, that was the year Spezza and Heatley signed their big extensions. Which is about what the team is spending now.

I am not questioning Melnyk's willingness to step up, I am question where the money is supposed to come from?

Hoags wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:
What was the cap?  60?  57?  I honestly can't remember.  My point was, Melnyk has always stepped up and always paid guys when it was time to.  Give me an example of when he didn't.

The salary cap in 07-08 was 50.3 million, that was the year Spezza and Heatley signed their big extensions.  Which is about what the team is spending now.

I am not questioning Melnyk's willingness to step up, I am question where the money is supposed to come from?

The savings from not fixing the Zamboni and getting the "corporate community" to pay for the new scoreboard.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

Hoags wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:
Why do you want to be at the cap so badly, anyway?  What is it you want to add to this team that can't be added either at the deadline, or next off-season?  And when was the last time Melnyk didn't step up and sign a guy?  Heatley, check.  Spezza, check.  Karlsson, check.  Anderson, check.  Turris, check.  What is it you want, Tim?

The cap was a lot lower back then.  As NHL revenues and the salary cap goes up the team has to bring in more money to spend more without going into the red.  Where is the money supposed to come from?

It comes from moving the arena somewhere downtown. Obviously just a pipe dream and will never happen, but I think the location of the arena really hurts revenues for the Sens. Sure, they make a ton in parking, but the in-game and post-game experience suffers by not having a team close to the 'nightlife' of the city. I think downtown Ottawa suffers as well. Those Saturday night home games in Ottawa would be amazing for the fans and businesses in and around the arena. Le Breton flights would have been perfect.

The NCC didn't want to let them build in LeBreton flats -- they had some long-term ideas (such as the war museum). That area is also ridiculously bad to get to/get away from. Montreal has train for the West Island folk, the metro for the metropolitan area, and busses on top of that. And they have multiple highways to bring people in from the South, North, East and West of the city. In Ottawa you've got the parkway to get in and out of LeBreton, and no room to build a highway or additional feeder roads to get to the highway. Right now the best place for the arena would be somewhere where off the 416, between the 417 and Fallowfield. You'd have the 417 for the downtown folk, and Kanata, Hut Club and Fallowfield as additional feeders, and 416 for Ottawa South. Thing is, it's not downtown. But the downtown of Ottawa cannot support mass transit to a single location.

SpezDispenser wrote:  What is it you want, Tim?

Alfie. Pretty sure I made that clear. We could've had him if we forked over cash somewhere close to what he was worth and deserved.

Melnyk's finances have never been as bad as they are now. We'll see how this continues to affect the team, but it won't be good.

tim1_2 wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:  What is it you want, Tim?

Alfie.  Pretty sure I made that clear.  We could've had him if we forked over cash somewhere close to what he was worth and deserved.

Melnyk's finances have never been as bad as they are now.  We'll see how this continues to affect the team, but it won't be good.

If he had come back and actually negotiated with the Sens (read: if he wanted to be here), he'd be here right now. It's on him, not us.

Yeah that's the bottom line.

tim1_2 wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:  What is it you want, Tim?

Alfie.  Pretty sure I made that clear.  We could've had him if we forked over cash somewhere close to what he was worth and deserved.

Melnyk's finances have never been as bad as they are now.  We'll see how this continues to affect the team, but it won't be good.

I honestly feel he is worth around $4.5M on a one-year deal, less if he wanted two. His sentimental value in Ottawa makes him worth more (one-team players are rare, he was the Captain and great mentor to the young players -- well, until Friday) but one the open market, this is a 40 year old player with diminishing skills and impact.

http://video.senators.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=0&id=250471&cmpid=embed-share-video

wprager wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

wprager wrote:A "pretty humble guy" who said "F! No!" to $4.5M versus $5.5M?

A pretty humble guy who got sick of leaving money on the table and taking home team discounts.  This was our last chance to make up, just a little bit, for his years of dedication to the team.  He left MILLIONS on the table in free agency previously, and we asked him to it AGAIN.  We nickle-and-dimed him, not the other way around.

That's a lot of nickels and dimes: $55,000,000.

Melnyk re-negotiated his old contract to give him more money.  Some of the underpayments are on Bryden/Muckler.

Also, did Alfie really have to leave millions on the table or was it his choice to do so?  In return for "leaving money on the table" he got treated like royalty/deity.  

Alfies probably in the top 40 all time NHL salary earners. Probably will jump up to the top 20 after this year.

http://blog.hockeyzoneplus.com/2012/05/jagr-leads-top-25-nhl-fortunes-with.html?m=1

Not bad company.

To me making 4 M in Ottawa is a much better life than 5m in Detroit. He might not be the face of the franchise but he's in for a culture shock.

LeKing wrote:http://video.senators.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=0&id=250471&cmpid=embed-share-video

Yeah, after that he wasn't worth much more than that to Ottawa, either. Leadership up in smoke with just two words.

How quick we are to turn our backs when we feel spurned. After all I've written, I'm not going to bother to try to convince anyone else here that the reason Alfie left is Melnyk.

Time will tell whether or not Melnyk is able and willing to spend big bucks.

Damn, I read that Mendes article and now it's hitting me.