Ottawa Senators TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Hoags wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Yeah, you gotta think Spezza's career is on the line. I assume he'll give it at least one more go before totally pulling the plug, but you have to think Murray is quietly trying to develop a Plan B.

I doubt his career is on the line, from the reports it sounds like he overexerted himself, pushed himself too hard and hurt himself. The surgery was a success, is there any evidence some Laff fan doctor Cussed it up ? lol

The back problems over the years are worrisome but he might be fine for years after he recovers from this as well. You can't replace a player like him so I really doubt they trade him or let him walk.

You can... he's not Crosby, Toews, or Tavares. Not easy, but like I said in another thread Ribeiro is pretty similar and could be had. Brad Richards could be had if he is bought out. Not saying to throw away Spezza but he's not the be all and end all in Ottawa. This year is proving that.

Guess they don't need Karlsson either, right? This year is proving it...

Bad argument.

Knew that would come up but Karlsson's body of work already speaks for itself. Spezza is very much that far from great, far from bad #1 center that can be had in the market at some point.

Anyways, point being is Spezza is much more replaceable than I think some people realize but there is no reason to get rid of him either. He's "good enough" for a #1 center in Ottawa.

Hoags wrote:

NEELY wrote:
You can... he's not Crosby, Toews, or Tavares. Not easy, but like I said in another thread Ribeiro is pretty similar and could be had. Brad Richards could be had if he is bought out. Not saying to throw away Spezza but he's not the be all and end all in Ottawa. This year is proving that.

I know you're not a fan of Spezza and he is not like those players but you can see how worse off the team is without him. We wouldn't have made the playoffs last year without him. Turris can't handle #1C responsabilities and who knows to what extent Zib can in the future. Spezza plays against the top opposition lines and puts up points and dominates in the faceoff circle. He doesn't go pointless for 20+ games like Turris and doesn't fall on his Donkey all the time when he was a quality scoring chance.

Ribeiro is a huge douchebag I wouldn't touch him with a 10m cattle prod. Richards ? seriously ? the guy is a disaster in New York.

Spezza's only problem is his health, the guys above have others.

Ev wrote:
Guess they don't need Karlsson either, right? This year is proving it...

Bad argument.

Exactly. We are compensating(which is a great accomplishment) but the team is noticeably worse with those 2 missing.

Pretty much the same player on and off the ice as Spezza. I would take Spezza 10 out of 10 times over Ribeiro for a few reasons but they are extremely similar in a lot of ways.

Richards... you are talking about a pure sniper and playoff performer who is being asked to block shots, forcheck hard every single night in a shortened season. He's been a really good hockey player for a decade, it didn't change this year. He's a better player than Spezza IMO although Richards might be slowing down a little and if Spezza does get back to full health, that opinion could change on a dime.

NEELY wrote:

Anyways, point being is Spezza is much more replaceable than I think some people realize but there is no reason to get rid of him either. He's "good enough" for a #1 center in Ottawa.

Replacing Spezza is about as difficult(maybe slightly less) as replacing Karlsson. I am not sure by what you mean he is just "good enough", look at the points he has put up over the years even on some Dung teams we've iced. Our faceoffs suck without (all sorts of impact there look at the goals we allowed from clean faceoff losses to our poor road record). Turris is falling apart in the #1C and is barely hanging in there.

Karlsson may be a more unique talent but there isn't very many players like Spezza in the league either. I would never replace him with Ribeiro or Richards unless you had no choice in the matter. Yes he is a "loser" who never won anything until that Spengler Cup last year but no one is perfect.

Spezza was terrific under MacLean last year and I would expect he would continue to do so in the future.

Spezza is 'good enough' is he?

Hoags wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Anyways, point being is Spezza is much more replaceable than I think some people realize but there is no reason to get rid of him either. He's "good enough" for a #1 center in Ottawa.

Replacing Spezza is about as difficult(maybe slightly less) as replacing Karlsson. I am not sure by what you mean he is just "good enough", look at the points he has put up over the years even on some Dung teams we've iced. Our faceoffs suck without (all sorts of impact there look at the goals we allowed from clean faceoff losses to our poor road record). Turris is falling apart in the #1C and is barely hanging in there.

Karlsson may be a more unique talent but there isn't very many players like Spezza in the league either. I would never replace him with Ribeiro or Richards unless you had no choice in the matter. Yes he is a "loser" who never won anything until that Spengler Cup last year but no one is perfect.

Spezza was terrific under MacLean last year and I would expect he would continue to do so in the future.

Not even close. Karlsson is arguably the best player on the planet... Crosby and then Karlsson IMO, he's top 5 without question not to mention the position he plays.

I don't think Spezza is all that special, if they were going to trade him it was the year after their cup run but that's sailed and there is no reason to even remotely think about that option. He's a very good player, had some excellent years, but again, not a guy you win with leading the charge and he doesn't have to be now which is great for him and the team. Replacing him? Tough, yes. Impossible? Not even close.

SpezDispenser wrote: Spezza is 'good enough' is he?

Just like Richards or Ribeiro would be good enough. Spezza hasn't done anything more than those 2 have in the last 5 years.

NEELY wrote:

Hoags wrote:

NEELY wrote:
You can... he's not Crosby, Toews, or Tavares. Not easy, but like I said in another thread Ribeiro is pretty similar and could be had. Brad Richards could be had if he is bought out. Not saying to throw away Spezza but he's not the be all and end all in Ottawa. This year is proving that.

I know you're not a fan of Spezza and he is not like those players but you can see how worse off the team is without him. We wouldn't have made the playoffs last year without him. Turris can't handle #1C responsabilities and who knows to what extent Zib can in the future. Spezza plays against the top opposition lines and puts up points and dominates in the faceoff circle. He doesn't go pointless for 20+ games like Turris and doesn't fall on his Donkey all the time when he was a quality scoring chance.

Ribeiro is a huge douchebag I wouldn't touch him with a 10m cattle prod. Richards ? seriously ? the guy is a disaster in New York.

Spezza's only problem is his health, the guys above have others.

Ev wrote:
Guess they don't need Karlsson either, right? This year is proving it...

Bad argument.

Exactly. We are compensating(which is a great accomplishment) but the team is noticeably worse with those 2 missing.

Pretty much the same player on and off the ice as Spezza. I would take Spezza 10 out of 10 times over Ribeiro for a few reasons but they are extremely similar in a lot of ways.

Richards... you are talking about a pure sniper and playoff performer who is being asked to block shots, forcheck hard every single night in a shortened season. He's been a really good hockey player for a decade, it didn't change this year. He's a better player than Spezza IMO although Richards might be slowing down a little and if Spezza does get back to full health, that opinion could change on a dime.

if we have the opportunity to bring in B richards you go for it. especially if he's bought out. he's a much better player then Ribero. I don't know if i would place Ribero and spezza on the same scale though. but yeah, Richards become available you jump on that. there's no doubt that our window to win the cup is about to open and we need to be a healthy team with a number 1 center and a 2nd line center. we get richards and spezza back you have two number 1 C. again i'm not sure Turris can play the wing but that's for the Murrays to figure out.

SpezDispenser wrote: Spezza is 'good enough' is he?

Technically yes he is good enough and yes there are players out there who are better whom we could never have. However there is many more players who are worse than Spezza in the centre position. Only possible replacements are older replacements who don't match his production and are declining at this point.

The safer, better option is Turris and Zib continuing their development and hopefully filling in down the road.

Turris' problems seem to be that he just isn't strong enough, nothing that supervised off-season training can't fix. He did it last summer and he is better this year. I doubt we can fully undo Phoenix' mishandling of his development after just one year.

The sky's the limit with Zib, who knows ?

Even in the unlikely event that Richards is bought out he would never come here. His best years are behind him and I don't think his decline is all on Torts, he was better last year.

If we could swap Spezza for Richards in the off-season, I'd think long and hard about that. Richards is a different player, but could fit in with MacStache's style easily.... Anyway, no one is really questioning Spezza and his value to the team...this whole discussion came up because there is a possibility we might have to try to REPLACE him.

tim1_2 wrote:If we could swap Spezza for Richards in the off-season, I'd think long and hard about that. Richards is a different player, but could fit in with MacStache's style easily.... Anyway, no one is really questioning Spezza and his value to the team...this whole discussion came up because there is a possibility we might have to try to REPLACE him.

Exactly. No one is saying "get rid of Spezza" but people (myself) are saying it wouldn't be as hard to replace him as some are letting on. He's a good player. Not great, but good for the position he plays. Sens need him.

[quote="NEELY"]

tim1_2 wrote:
Exactly. No one is saying "get rid of Spezza" but people (myself) are saying it wouldn't be as hard to replace him as some are letting on. He's a good player. Not great, but good for the position he plays. Sens need him.

What are the chances of Ribeiro/Richards signing here if they were available in July ? Just because an opportunity to replace Spezza exists does not mean it would come to pass. It would not be quite that easy.

But I think this has reached levels.

I don't think I said anything that rips on Spezza, just players that will bring a similar game and play the same role as Spezza doesnt.

Mike Ribeiro is an bunghole and somebody this team would never bring in. They preach character, he has none. Brad Richards has a Dung contract and is on the decline.

They are not proving at all that they can easily replace Spezza. They are in a playoff position because of one thing and only one thing. Goaltending. You cannot replace Spezza or Karlsson.

Ev wrote:Mike Ribeiro is an bunghole and somebody this team would never bring in. They preach character, he has none. Brad Richards has a Dung contract and is on the decline.

They are not proving at all that they can easily replace Spezza. They are in a playoff position because of one thing and only one thing. Goaltending. You cannot replace Spezza or Karlsson.

Take it to the "Plan B" thread. The question was: What do we do if we don't have Spezza next year? You can call it "replacing" or "filling a hole" or whatever you like.

Per TSN Research:
----
OTT has used 14 rookies this season. DAL/FLA-10. CAR/TB/DET-8
----

And you'll notice where those teams are in the standings.

I guess Ottawa is the deepest franchise in the league.

And yet it looks like voters are leaning toward Therrien in the Jack Adams voting and not a peep for Bryan Murray GM of the year award.

tim1_2 wrote:Per TSN Research:
----
OTT has used 14 rookies this season. DAL/FLA-10. CAR/TB/DET-8
----

And you'll notice where those teams are in the standings.

I guess Ottawa is the deepest franchise in the league.

Nah, more like those other teams haven't gotten world class goaltending.