Corporate Tax break cuts could jeopardize Sens Franchise

That dunce Duncan thinks TML will lower ticket prices if the government removes the 50% tax break for corporations buying sporting tickets.

Did he think before he said that? Do we actually think Rogers/Bell would want lower revenue from gate receipts. Another big question.. did the Teacher's Pension know this was going to be requested -- that is why they sold the team?

Big corporations in Toronto will find another way to write off the tickets if this does go through.

But was any thought given to the OHL teams and the revenue they get from small business owners who won't be able to continue if they lose this tax break?

Will this go Canada wide if the Feds do agree... Will Winnipeg be gone after just getting there. No Quebec Nordiques... What about Edmonton? What about another team in Southern Ontario.

If the Sens do leave... the revenue they get from eliminating this will be lost by the revenue not generated by the Sens being in Ontario... the lost income tax from the players, employees of the team... By the small businesses in the area that will have trouble if the team leaves.

The corporate donations through the Sens Foundation in the community.

Remember the lockout.. how small business in Kanata suffered as well as others in the City.

I assume McGuinty and his cronies looked no farther than Toronto... it affects the rest of the province as well.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:If the Gene truly isn't generating income from other sources then this team will be sold not too long from now I would think.

I thought he generates a lot of money from the arena and capital tickets. The Sens don't make money but all the other revenue generated by SBP more than makes up for the hit to Melnyk's bottom line.

When SportsNet started a rumour that he'll sell the team, he said he'd never do that unless support would totally dry up here.

Yesterday on Team 1200 Leeder actually said renewals are up for next season (no surprise due to the team success) so I think they are doing better financially.

We're at the floor because it makes no sense to spend that much if we;re not a Cup Contender, Melnyk said in the past he's learned that lesson, we've been a cap team for years and nothing to show for it. We'd have to make it to the 2nd round (and beyond) I think to make a profit when at max salary cap.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:
According to the two articles I read

1 - All suites and luxury boxes are owned by corporations - Will they continue to buy these suites if they can't write it off anymore??

2 - 50% of all other Season seat holders are companies that make use of this tax write-off. How many of those companies will continue to buy those seats?

I think that's the worry, our corporate and season ticket support would dwindle.

Funny how the Government wants to do it and trying to justify it thinking the Leafs prices will drop ?? Hello ? there's another team in Ontario ???

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

shabbs wrote:

Hoags wrote:Sounds a bit "doom and gloom" how Leeder says the franchise could fold.

I mean fold ? really ? Is Rod Bryden running the team again ?

Very alarmist. If this change will cause the Sens to "go under" then there are some serious financial management issues going on there.

The concern is that if the tax breaks go away, then the clients will go away and they'll be forced to lower prices or have empty suites.

Are they that dependent on the money generated by tickets and luxury suite sales to corporate customers? I wonder how much of the income that piece represents.

According to the two articles I read

1 - All suites and luxury boxes are owned by corporations - Will they continue to buy these suites if they can't write it off anymore??

2 - 50% of all other Season seat holders are companies that make use of this tax write-off. How many of those companies will continue to buy those seats?

It's not like the tax write-off is 100%. They get a break, no big deal. They can always donate tickets to charities and get a charitable contribution for the face value, which is less than what they paid. There are ways.

Didn't the article state that removing this tax break would result in about $13M for the province? This includes hockey tickets as well as arts and other entertainment. Even if it was *all* hockey, the ACC tickets are more than double the cost of SBP, so only about a third of that $13M would be in Ottawa. We are not talking about a ton of money, here.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=389236

Read this one...

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/03/01/tax-hit-would-wipe-out-sens-leeder

To save $15M province wide... they are willing to risk losing 30M in payroll taxes and other taxes if the Sens leave... That's not including what the City gets in tax revenue from them. How does this make any sense?

Leeder also said.. this would affect every sporting franchise in Canada... not just Ontario...

How did these guys even get elected... it's obvious they have not even looked into any of this...

sandysensfan wrote:Read this one...

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/03/01/tax-hit-would-wipe-out-sens-leeder

To save $15M province wide... they are willing to risk losing 30M in payroll taxes and other taxes if the Sens leave... That's not including what the City gets in tax revenue from them. How does this make any sense?

Leeder also said.. this would affect every sporting franchise in Canada... not just Ontario...

How did these guys even get elected... it's obvious they have not even looked into any of this...

I don't understand how Ontario tax policy could have an impact on sports franchises outside Ontario.

spader wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:Read this one...

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/03/01/tax-hit-would-wipe-out-sens-leeder

To save $15M province wide... they are willing to risk losing 30M in payroll taxes and other taxes if the Sens leave... That's not including what the City gets in tax revenue from them. How does this make any sense?

Leeder also said.. this would affect every sporting franchise in Canada... not just Ontario...

How did these guys even get elected... it's obvious they have not even looked into any of this...

I don't understand how Ontario tax policy could have an impact on sports franchises outside Ontario.

IF it was just Ontario tax policy.. wouldn't Ontario act on it's own and just change it? Why go to the Feds?

I heard this on the Team 1200 this afternoon. From Steve Lloyd's Twitter:

Steve Lloyd wrote to Bill Daly and asked him if the NHL would revisit the Ontario Government using NHL for betting (ProLine) if tax write off (ie: #Sens tix) is revoked.

Bill Daly's answer more or less -- "fair to say that (NHL) would view any such change very negatively, and as an unnecessary and unfriendly act"

So seems the NHL appears a little pissed off with the Ontario Libs... Good...

sandysensfan wrote:

spader wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:Read this one...

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/03/01/tax-hit-would-wipe-out-sens-leeder

To save $15M province wide... they are willing to risk losing 30M in payroll taxes and other taxes if the Sens leave... That's not including what the City gets in tax revenue from them. How does this make any sense?

Leeder also said.. this would affect every sporting franchise in Canada... not just Ontario...

How did these guys even get elected... it's obvious they have not even looked into any of this...

I don't understand how Ontario tax policy could have an impact on sports franchises outside Ontario.

IF it was just Ontario tax policy.. wouldn't Ontario act on it's own and just change it? Why go to the Feds?

It is just Ontario tax policy. The Ontario government is talking about acting on its own and just changing it. They aren't going to the feds. At least, not from what I've read. This is strictly Ontario's move. The feds have nothing to do with it (unless I'm missing something substantial).

EDIT: As far as I can tell, the only reason that the word "federal" came up is in relation to the sales tax dollars that the feds lose if the team folds. The Ontario government is the only player, here.

spader wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:

spader wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:Read this one...

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/03/01/tax-hit-would-wipe-out-sens-leeder

To save $15M province wide... they are willing to risk losing 30M in payroll taxes and other taxes if the Sens leave... That's not including what the City gets in tax revenue from them. How does this make any sense?

Leeder also said.. this would affect every sporting franchise in Canada... not just Ontario...

How did these guys even get elected... it's obvious they have not even looked into any of this...

I don't understand how Ontario tax policy could have an impact on sports franchises outside Ontario.

IF it was just Ontario tax policy.. wouldn't Ontario act on it's own and just change it? Why go to the Feds?

It is just Ontario tax policy. The Ontario government is talking about acting on its own and just changing it. They aren't going to the feds. At least, not from what I've read. This is strictly Ontario's move. The feds have nothing to do with it (unless I'm missing something substantial).

EDIT: As far as I can tell, the only reason that the word "federal" came up is in relation to the sales tax dollars that the feds lose if the team folds. The Ontario government is the only player, here.

Duncan & McGuinty sent the request to Jim Flaherty -- who is the FEDERAL Minister of Finance... so why would they do that if they are changing provincial tax law.

Anyway,-- NHL is pretty upset with this...

They sent a request that the feds study their proposal.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/Sports+ticket+writeoff+continue/6255285/story.html

Flaherty kills the idea. Nothing to see here... nothing to see here.. moving along...

Federal government laughed right in the face of the provincial government. Shows what kind of respect they have earned, haha. Idiots.

Makes them look so dumb. Yikes.

SpezDispenser wrote:Makes them look so dumb. Yikes.

They were playing to sentiments of the working stiff who has to pay full price for hockey tickets. The ruling federal party has a more business-first ideology so the Ontario government really didn't pick their spot in this case.

Either way it was ill-conceived.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Makes them look so dumb. Yikes.

They were playing to sentiments of the working stiff who has to pay full price for hockey tickets. The ruling federal party has a more business-first ideology so the Ontario government really didn't pick their spot in this case.

Either way it was ill-conceived.

It's because the working stiff is the one that is totally getting screwed by the Ontario Government, just buying votes or at least trying to.