Sens on July 1st, Free Agents, Trades - Interesting storylines to watch.

hemlock wrote:

Hoags wrote:

hemlock wrote:
Saying anything could blow up in our faces sounds like a copout to me. It's a way to justify this signing.

Volchenkov is a shot blocking pylon now? Wow. Stop and turn on a dime. If he'd signed in Ottawa for 3 million, the vast majority of people on this site would be rejoicing.

As far as Gonchar wanting to play in Sochi, well that's fine and dandy, but he'll be pushing 40 then, so there's no guarantee he'll be even close to playing well enough. As far as his comments go, what else do you expect him to say? "This was the best offer"

I'm just saying there's no guarantees in anything.

Volchenkov wanted too much money and too much term. It makes no sense for us. I'm not trying to diminsh his skill or his play but we badly needed a puck mover more than a shot blocker. A-train will fall apart before his 6-year contract is up with NJ as injuries catch up to him, I'd love if he stayed for $3M/year but we all know that wasn't going to happen.

Our PP was 22nd last season. As Murray said, it'd be better if we just get the puck out of our zone and have the other team worry about blocking shots. Volchenkov staying or getting Michalek would do little to fix that.

Martin would've been a good 2nd choice if we lost out on Gonchar.

Yes there's some concerns over his age and injuries but I think he'll be fine. Lidstrom is still going strong so it's too much of a stretch that Gonchar will be fine.

Lidstrom also hasn't had the injury history Gonchar has, particularly recently. What do we do if Gonchar blows his knee out 4 games into this season and is forced to retire? What then? Anyone care to furnish an answer?

He doesn't retire in that situation see Mike Rathje for an example. LTIR and he collects all his money.

RobbyJ wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Hoags wrote:

hemlock wrote:
Now I know what N4L goes through daily on this site. 20 posters trying to brow beat their opinion on you is no fun. Next time, I'll tow the line since I have no desire to be put in the position where I have to defend my completely rational OPINION again. Aside from Sens4theCup and a couple of others, no-one here even wants to acknoledge that this could blow up in Murray's face.

Any move that Murray could have done today could blow up his face, there's no guarantees in anything.

We needed an elite PMD to get our PP and transition game out of the gutter and to show Karlsson and our other prospects how it's done. Murray went out and got the best one available and he did it quick.

Could this blow up in our face ? Sure. Did we overpay a bit, is the 3rd year a concern ? Yes. But we don't want to sign any D-men to longterm contracts when we've got some of the best defence prospects coming up through the system.

At some point we have to roll the dice and I feel BM went out and got what the team (desperately) needed. Listen to Murray's comments you need D-men to move the puck, have a quick transition game and a threat from the point on the PP. We don't need a shot blocking pylon.

Gonchar's comments make me feel better as well. He's excited to play here and in Canada ( says he always does) and he wants to play in Sochi. Excellent attitude so far.

I understand the concerns but I think we did good.

Saying anything could blow up in our faces sounds like a copout to me. It's a way to justify this signing.

Volchenkov is a shot blocking pylon now? Wow. Stop and turn on a dime. If he'd signed in Ottawa for 3 million, the vast majority of people on this site would be rejoicing.

As far as Gonchar wanting to play in Sochi, well that's fine and dandy, but he'll be pushing 40 then, so there's no guarantee he'll be even close to playing well enough. As far as his comments go, what else do you expect him to say? "This was the best offer"

The fact that Gonchar signed at 12:15 tells me he does want to play here. Obviously his first choice was Pittsburgh but it's not like the Kovalev signing, where he settled for the Sens.

I love Volchenkov for sacrificing his body for the team, but at the same time I was on record before the trade deadline as saying that he is extremely overrated and would be overpaid for too long. I honestly expected Murray to be the one that overpaid him. He is NOT great defensively and stopped hitting but there is no denying that he was the best shotblocker this team has ever seen, and probably ever will.

For years Murray has stated he wanted an elite puck mover and now he has one whose contract has just the right amount of term to end as Karlsson becomes a true top pairing Dman and hopefully either Weircioch or Runblad are ready to replace him. Will Gonchar decline, of course he will, but he'll still provide what we need IMO. Hopefully Karlsson improves at the same rate Gonchar declines and they just naturally switch roles on the club.

This is a great signing, not because it can't backfire, but because it addresses a huge issue going forward and has the POTENTIAL to work out great. Really, aren't all off-season moves from the draft to FA season to trades all about potentially improving the team. I love the signing and I will still think it was the right thing to do if it turns out poorly, since there are no guarantees on July 1st.

No there aren't any guarantees. There were certainly some safer choices though.

Big Ev wrote:

Hoags wrote:

Volchenkov wanted too much money and too much term. It makes no sense for us. I'm not trying to diminsh his skill or his play but we badly needed a puck mover more than a shot blocker. A-train will fall apart before his 6-year contract is up with NJ as injuries catch up to him, I'd love if he stayed for $3M/year but we all know that wasn't going to happen.

If we NEEDED a puck-mover more than a shot-blocker, why was everybody so keen on getting Michalek, who is not offensive? I would bet that if we didn't have Milan, nobody would have been eager to sign Michalek anyway.

Michalek is a shot blocker who has the ability to move the puck a little bit, which is better than Volchenkov. Having said that we would still have needed a PMD in Murray's opinion.

hemlock wrote:

RobbyJ wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Hoags wrote:

hemlock wrote:
Now I know what N4L goes through daily on this site. 20 posters trying to brow beat their opinion on you is no fun. Next time, I'll tow the line since I have no desire to be put in the position where I have to defend my completely rational OPINION again. Aside from Sens4theCup and a couple of others, no-one here even wants to acknoledge that this could blow up in Murray's face.

Any move that Murray could have done today could blow up his face, there's no guarantees in anything.

We needed an elite PMD to get our PP and transition game out of the gutter and to show Karlsson and our other prospects how it's done. Murray went out and got the best one available and he did it quick.

Could this blow up in our face ? Sure. Did we overpay a bit, is the 3rd year a concern ? Yes. But we don't want to sign any D-men to longterm contracts when we've got some of the best defence prospects coming up through the system.

At some point we have to roll the dice and I feel BM went out and got what the team (desperately) needed. Listen to Murray's comments you need D-men to move the puck, have a quick transition game and a threat from the point on the PP. We don't need a shot blocking pylon.

Gonchar's comments make me feel better as well. He's excited to play here and in Canada ( says he always does) and he wants to play in Sochi. Excellent attitude so far.

I understand the concerns but I think we did good.

Saying anything could blow up in our faces sounds like a copout to me. It's a way to justify this signing.

Volchenkov is a shot blocking pylon now? Wow. Stop and turn on a dime. If he'd signed in Ottawa for 3 million, the vast majority of people on this site would be rejoicing.

As far as Gonchar wanting to play in Sochi, well that's fine and dandy, but he'll be pushing 40 then, so there's no guarantee he'll be even close to playing well enough. As far as his comments go, what else do you expect him to say? "This was the best offer"

The fact that Gonchar signed at 12:15 tells me he does want to play here. Obviously his first choice was Pittsburgh but it's not like the Kovalev signing, where he settled for the Sens.

I love Volchenkov for sacrificing his body for the team, but at the same time I was on record before the trade deadline as saying that he is extremely overrated and would be overpaid for too long. I honestly expected Murray to be the one that overpaid him. He is NOT great defensively and stopped hitting but there is no denying that he was the best shotblocker this team has ever seen, and probably ever will.

For years Murray has stated he wanted an elite puck mover and now he has one whose contract has just the right amount of term to end as Karlsson becomes a true top pairing Dman and hopefully either Weircioch or Runblad are ready to replace him. Will Gonchar decline, of course he will, but he'll still provide what we need IMO. Hopefully Karlsson improves at the same rate Gonchar declines and they just naturally switch roles on the club.

This is a great signing, not because it can't backfire, but because it addresses a huge issue going forward and has the POTENTIAL to work out great. Really, aren't all off-season moves from the draft to FA season to trades all about potentially improving the team. I love the signing and I will still think it was the right thing to do if it turns out poorly, since there are no guarantees on July 1st.

No there aren't any guarantees. There were certainly some safer choices though.

Safer is okay, but every now and then you have to take a chance on great outcomes. The upside of this move is enormous, I just hope it happens.

Big Ev wrote:

Hoags wrote:

Volchenkov wanted too much money and too much term. It makes no sense for us. I'm not trying to diminsh his skill or his play but we badly needed a puck mover more than a shot blocker. A-train will fall apart before his 6-year contract is up with NJ as injuries catch up to him, I'd love if he stayed for $3M/year but we all know that wasn't going to happen.

If we NEEDED a puck-mover more than a shot-blocker, why was everybody so keen on getting Michalek, who is not offensive? I would bet that if we didn't have Milan, nobody would have been eager to sign Michalek anyway.

bingo but since it has been said they would like to play together (i assume true) it was assumed he would sign here at a reasonable price ie lower than volchenkov then it got whipped into a frenzy by bloggers and people here but i still like the gonchar move it was what we actually needed would be great if he was younger but we can only let time tell the story

RobbyJ wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Hoags wrote:

hemlock wrote:
Saying anything could blow up in our faces sounds like a copout to me. It's a way to justify this signing.

Volchenkov is a shot blocking pylon now? Wow. Stop and turn on a dime. If he'd signed in Ottawa for 3 million, the vast majority of people on this site would be rejoicing.

As far as Gonchar wanting to play in Sochi, well that's fine and dandy, but he'll be pushing 40 then, so there's no guarantee he'll be even close to playing well enough. As far as his comments go, what else do you expect him to say? "This was the best offer"

I'm just saying there's no guarantees in anything.

Volchenkov wanted too much money and too much term. It makes no sense for us. I'm not trying to diminsh his skill or his play but we badly needed a puck mover more than a shot blocker. A-train will fall apart before his 6-year contract is up with NJ as injuries catch up to him, I'd love if he stayed for $3M/year but we all know that wasn't going to happen.

Our PP was 22nd last season. As Murray said, it'd be better if we just get the puck out of our zone and have the other team worry about blocking shots. Volchenkov staying or getting Michalek would do little to fix that.

Martin would've been a good 2nd choice if we lost out on Gonchar.

Yes there's some concerns over his age and injuries but I think he'll be fine. Lidstrom is still going strong so it's too much of a stretch that Gonchar will be fine.

Lidstrom also hasn't had the injury history Gonchar has, particularly recently. What do we do if Gonchar blows his knee out 4 games into this season and is forced to retire? What then? Anyone care to furnish an answer?

He doesn't retire in that situation see Mike Rathje for an example. LTIR and he collects all his money.

The player of course has to agree to this. After all it's his signature on the retirement papers. I'm not suggesting he'd be so gutless, but I am sure there are a whole bunch of requirements he'd have to fill in order to stay on LTIR.

I had ONE day off work last week for a concussion, and I had 6 pieces of mail from WCB, two phone calls, then two more from Occupational Health and Safety. I doubt it's just a filing of paperwork and he gets his cheques. It's just not that simple.

RobbyJ wrote:

hemlock wrote:

RobbyJ wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Hoags wrote:

hemlock wrote:
Now I know what N4L goes through daily on this site. 20 posters trying to brow beat their opinion on you is no fun. Next time, I'll tow the line since I have no desire to be put in the position where I have to defend my completely rational OPINION again. Aside from Sens4theCup and a couple of others, no-one here even wants to acknoledge that this could blow up in Murray's face.

Any move that Murray could have done today could blow up his face, there's no guarantees in anything.

We needed an elite PMD to get our PP and transition game out of the gutter and to show Karlsson and our other prospects how it's done. Murray went out and got the best one available and he did it quick.

Could this blow up in our face ? Sure. Did we overpay a bit, is the 3rd year a concern ? Yes. But we don't want to sign any D-men to longterm contracts when we've got some of the best defence prospects coming up through the system.

At some point we have to roll the dice and I feel BM went out and got what the team (desperately) needed. Listen to Murray's comments you need D-men to move the puck, have a quick transition game and a threat from the point on the PP. We don't need a shot blocking pylon.

Gonchar's comments make me feel better as well. He's excited to play here and in Canada ( says he always does) and he wants to play in Sochi. Excellent attitude so far.

I understand the concerns but I think we did good.

Saying anything could blow up in our faces sounds like a copout to me. It's a way to justify this signing.

Volchenkov is a shot blocking pylon now? Wow. Stop and turn on a dime. If he'd signed in Ottawa for 3 million, the vast majority of people on this site would be rejoicing.

As far as Gonchar wanting to play in Sochi, well that's fine and dandy, but he'll be pushing 40 then, so there's no guarantee he'll be even close to playing well enough. As far as his comments go, what else do you expect him to say? "This was the best offer"

The fact that Gonchar signed at 12:15 tells me he does want to play here. Obviously his first choice was Pittsburgh but it's not like the Kovalev signing, where he settled for the Sens.

I love Volchenkov for sacrificing his body for the team, but at the same time I was on record before the trade deadline as saying that he is extremely overrated and would be overpaid for too long. I honestly expected Murray to be the one that overpaid him. He is NOT great defensively and stopped hitting but there is no denying that he was the best shotblocker this team has ever seen, and probably ever will.

For years Murray has stated he wanted an elite puck mover and now he has one whose contract has just the right amount of term to end as Karlsson becomes a true top pairing Dman and hopefully either Weircioch or Runblad are ready to replace him. Will Gonchar decline, of course he will, but he'll still provide what we need IMO. Hopefully Karlsson improves at the same rate Gonchar declines and they just naturally switch roles on the club.

This is a great signing, not because it can't backfire, but because it addresses a huge issue going forward and has the POTENTIAL to work out great. Really, aren't all off-season moves from the draft to FA season to trades all about potentially improving the team. I love the signing and I will still think it was the right thing to do if it turns out poorly, since there are no guarantees on July 1st.

No there aren't any guarantees. There were certainly some safer choices though.

Safer is okay, but every now and then you have to take a chance on great outcomes. The upside of this move is enormous, I just hope it happens.

I agree that Murray needs to take chances. I'm already on record as saying that. I'm tired of the Martin Lapointe deals too.

There just seems to be an incredible amount of risk here, primarily that he isn't good enough to justify his salary in a year or two. You know the typical Ottawa fan. How long do you think it takes for him to become the whipping boy if that's the case?

With great risk comes great reward they say....what they fail to mention is that also with great risk comes massive failure. With our defence primed to rock crotches in a few short years, I'd rather have seen Murray use that money elsewhere.

As long as he is medically unable to play he can live in Russia while collecting his salary and being on LTIR if I read the CBA correctly.

hemlock wrote:

RobbyJ wrote:

hemlock wrote:

RobbyJ wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Hoags wrote:

hemlock wrote:
Now I know what N4L goes through daily on this site. 20 posters trying to brow beat their opinion on you is no fun. Next time, I'll tow the line since I have no desire to be put in the position where I have to defend my completely rational OPINION again. Aside from Sens4theCup and a couple of others, no-one here even wants to acknoledge that this could blow up in Murray's face.

Any move that Murray could have done today could blow up his face, there's no guarantees in anything.

We needed an elite PMD to get our PP and transition game out of the gutter and to show Karlsson and our other prospects how it's done. Murray went out and got the best one available and he did it quick.

Could this blow up in our face ? Sure. Did we overpay a bit, is the 3rd year a concern ? Yes. But we don't want to sign any D-men to longterm contracts when we've got some of the best defence prospects coming up through the system.

At some point we have to roll the dice and I feel BM went out and got what the team (desperately) needed. Listen to Murray's comments you need D-men to move the puck, have a quick transition game and a threat from the point on the PP. We don't need a shot blocking pylon.

Gonchar's comments make me feel better as well. He's excited to play here and in Canada ( says he always does) and he wants to play in Sochi. Excellent attitude so far.

I understand the concerns but I think we did good.

Saying anything could blow up in our faces sounds like a copout to me. It's a way to justify this signing.

Volchenkov is a shot blocking pylon now? Wow. Stop and turn on a dime. If he'd signed in Ottawa for 3 million, the vast majority of people on this site would be rejoicing.

As far as Gonchar wanting to play in Sochi, well that's fine and dandy, but he'll be pushing 40 then, so there's no guarantee he'll be even close to playing well enough. As far as his comments go, what else do you expect him to say? "This was the best offer"

The fact that Gonchar signed at 12:15 tells me he does want to play here. Obviously his first choice was Pittsburgh but it's not like the Kovalev signing, where he settled for the Sens.

I love Volchenkov for sacrificing his body for the team, but at the same time I was on record before the trade deadline as saying that he is extremely overrated and would be overpaid for too long. I honestly expected Murray to be the one that overpaid him. He is NOT great defensively and stopped hitting but there is no denying that he was the best shotblocker this team has ever seen, and probably ever will.

For years Murray has stated he wanted an elite puck mover and now he has one whose contract has just the right amount of term to end as Karlsson becomes a true top pairing Dman and hopefully either Weircioch or Runblad are ready to replace him. Will Gonchar decline, of course he will, but he'll still provide what we need IMO. Hopefully Karlsson improves at the same rate Gonchar declines and they just naturally switch roles on the club.

This is a great signing, not because it can't backfire, but because it addresses a huge issue going forward and has the POTENTIAL to work out great. Really, aren't all off-season moves from the draft to FA season to trades all about potentially improving the team. I love the signing and I will still think it was the right thing to do if it turns out poorly, since there are no guarantees on July 1st.

No there aren't any guarantees. There were certainly some safer choices though.

Safer is okay, but every now and then you have to take a chance on great outcomes. The upside of this move is enormous, I just hope it happens.

I agree that Murray needs to take chances. I'm already on record as saying that. I'm tired of the Martin Lapointe deals too.

There just seems to be an incredible amount of risk here, primarily that he isn't good enough to justify his salary in a year or two. You know the typical Ottawa fan. How long do you think it takes for him to become the whipping boy if that's the case?

With great risk comes great reward they say....what they fail to mention is that also with great risk comes massive failure. With our defence primed to rock crotches in a few short years, I'd rather have seen Murray use that money elsewhere.

He'll also be gone after those few short years. 2013/2014 will be the 3rd year of Wiercioch's ELC and last year of Gonchar's contract. There is no doubt in my mind that Murray didn't want to give any UFA dman including Volchenkov more than 3 years. It's also no coincidence IMO, that Kuba's deal runs out at the same time as Karlsson's ELC.

RobbyJ wrote:As long as he is medically unable to play he can live in Russia while collecting his salary and being on LTIR if I read the CBA correctly.

Perhaps. I'm not going to pretend I know the ins and outs of LTIR, but I would think that he's constantly got to be evaluated in order to receive his benefits (ie. Salary).

Good little convo going on yesterday with you two... I'm gonna jump in if that's cool.

I agree with Robby for the most part but that's not to say that Hem doesnt make some good points. There's risk for sure, but there is risk in any UFA signing to be honest. The risk in signing Gonchar might be a little higher but the fact remains the reward for The Sens overall, well the sky is the limit.

People forget this is a guy who was the number 1 D man on a team that went to the finals 2 years in a row and played his heart out when they won the cup with a messed up knee, he's also the guy that got that whole offence going.

A guy like Spezza and Kovalev are going to benifit in a BIG way with Gonchar moving the puck and handling it in the back end, so will Phillips if they are paired together. Spezza could very well have a career just on the PP alone with Gonchar doing the duties. Kovalev, well he might be a guy that we can say (collectivly) "he was ok, not worth 5 mil but still provided something The Sens needed".

Then you have the effect it's going to have on guys like Karlsson and Campoli right now, they can learn from the absolute best and see just how smart of a D man this guy really is. Later on, Cowen, Weircoich, Gryba, Runblad, and maybe Wideman. These guys are going to get all the time in the world to develop in their respective leagues without the rush of "The Sens needed a puck mover or offense from the blueline!". Even guys like Cowen and Gryba will get to see how to take away time and space and just work smart in their own end, it's important because these two guys will be taking the body hard but being able to lay off once in a while and get the puck or make a play is just as important.

As for Gonchar's overall play, the guy isnt just some PP specialist that cant do anything else, this is a VERY good D man in every aspect. He's a better defensive D man then A Train, blocking shots is nice, but the way Gonchar works in his own end he doesnt really need to, Im not going to say he's a shutdown D man by any means but he has the ability to play against teams top lines and do a good job and expose them when his team has the puck. Offense, well, that's why he got 5.5 mil per.

If he gets injured then you have other young kids to plug the holes short term here and there,namely Wiercoich who would more then likely be the guy coming up if Gonchar is out of the lineup. I dont get the "LTIR" thing or saying "what if there is a career threatening injury" because that's a risk for every player in The NHL. The decline in production is a legit concern but I just dont see that happening, like Alfi, Gonchar can probably move the puck with his mind he's such a smart player and there is no substitute for that. He just picks apart the defense and exposes them. I just cant see how he gets anything less then about a .75 ppg avg in his entire time in Ottawa.

The signing was a little risky, mainly for the NTC, but the term is perfect IMO and the salary... meh, A Train got 4.25 and might get the amount of points his entire time in NJ that Gonchar will get next year and there is a 1.25 mil dif with 3 more years attached to A Train.

Also, if Gonchar is still going off at a good clip when his contract is up in 3 years, Ottawa will get a cheap, short term 4th for sure because of the Olympics in Russia, he's going to have to play if that is truly his goal, it might not seem like much right now, but that will probably be around the time of Alfi's last run if they dont do it between now and then and that could be huge.

Great signing, Murray was active and The Sens are better today then they were when they ended the year and they didnt give up anything to do it. Not much else you can ask as a Sens fan then your GM being proactive and going for it without risking the future (hell he helped it).

Well said. I thing we're all aware of the risks, but the reward is going to be wonderful for this organization - particuarly the forward group.

Great post, N4L (except, did you mean A-Train might get Gonchar's point total next year during *his* term or during Gonchar's? 'cause I don't think A-Train will get Gonchar's point total in three years; six, maybe).

I'm usually the guy on this forum who is very conservative, risk averse and so on. I loved this signing. I was hoping it would be maybe $500K less, but with UFAs you don't give up any assets, so there's generally an overpayment.

He is not a bone-crunching hitter or a shot blocking machine, so his career will not follow A-Train's trajectory. Could he be like Chelios? Probably not, but he definitely could go on at least as long as Rob Blake. I really don't think his production will decrease much over the course of this contract -- unless he is injured (always a risk) or the rest of the team sucks around him (not very likely).

wprager wrote:Great post, N4L (except, did you mean A-Train might get Gonchar's point total next year during *his* term or during Gonchar's? 'cause I don't think A-Train will get Gonchar's point total in three years; six, maybe).

I'm usually the guy on this forum who is very conservative, risk averse and so on. I loved this signing. I was hoping it would be maybe $500K less, but with UFAs you don't give up any assets, so there's generally an overpayment.

He is not a bone-crunching hitter or a shot blocking machine, so his career will not follow A-Train's trajectory. Could he be like Chelios? Probably not, but he definitely could go on at least as long as Rob Blake. I really don't think his production will decrease much over the course of this contract -- unless he is injured (always a risk) or the rest of the team sucks around him (not very likely).

I would say for every 3 years of production from A Train, it doesnt = one year from Gonchar.

So, with Cullen completely out of the picture is adding "Savy" a good idea now?

SeawaySensFan wrote:So, with Cullen completely out of the picture is adding "Savy" a good idea now?

Nope, need a winger for Spezza first. Probably going to be Butler though.

Anyways, next years team is set and unless they have problems signing Regin and Foligno, Savard isnt coming here.

N4L wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:So, with Cullen completely out of the picture is adding "Savy" a good idea now?

Nope, need a winger for Spezza first. Probably going to be Butler though.

Anyways, next years team is set and unless they have problems signing Regin and Foligno, Savard isnt coming here.

Agreed, I see us going young on the wings now, Butler or Wick.

I think Butler is the logical choice to be tried out there if Regin and Kovalev are put together. Who know's but there are a ton of options up front when the year starts.

Wonder what they do with the RFA's at this point though?