08 Draft (a retrospection): Karlsson or Eberle?

Subban is a good player, but nothing like Eberle. Subban probably isn't even near Karlsson at this point. And Edmonton has a really deep defensive prospect chart.

Wow, Karlsson and it's not close for me. We needed this kind of D-man and rest assured in 5 years he'll be absolutely amazing. Wait until he gets a read on NHL situations a little better and bulks up a bit - you won't believe what you're seeing. He'll OWN on the PP and deliver ridiculous passes 5 on 5. We wanted this kind of player and we got him and we're VERY fortunate.

Dash wrote:Subban is a good player, but nothing like Eberle. Subban probably isn't even near Karlsson at this point. And Edmonton has a really deep defensive prospect chart.

Yeah. But is Eberle gregarious and engaging?

Dash wrote:Will Karlsson ever be more than a 5th/6th PP specialist?

What?

Dash wrote:Do you think Edmonton would trade a highly touted prospect and WJ hero for an injured, under-performing Spezza? What if Ottawa traded Karlsson for Tom Gilbert?

What?!

Dash wrote:But I think Edmonton has no intentions of moving Eberle whatsoever unless it is Crosby, Ovechkin or maybe Kovalchuk.

What?!?!

Jeez louise you need to calm down about the importance of the WJHC. Marc Crawford outscored Doug Gilmour in one tournament.

Jordan Eberle is a good prospect. He's not the second coming, though.

asq2 wrote:Jeez louise you need to calm down about the importance of the WJHC. Marc Crawford outscored Doug Gilmour in one tournament.

Cornwall Royals.

asq2 wrote:

Dash wrote:Will Karlsson ever be more than a 5th/6th PP specialist?

What?

Well, he could be nothing more, or he could be a top pairing, who knows? Same can be said for Eberle.

Dash wrote:Do you think Edmonton would trade a highly touted prospect and WJ hero for an injured, under-performing Spezza? What if Ottawa traded Karlsson for Tom Gilbert?

What?!

You think Edmonton would trade Eberle for Spezza? I'm not certain they would, nor am I certain Spezza's even available nor would it be, and it probably isn't, enough to get Murray interested.

Dash wrote:But I think Edmonton has no intentions of moving Eberle whatsoever unless it is Crosby, Ovechkin or maybe Kovalchuk.

What?!?!

Jeez louise you need to calm down about the importance of the WJHC. Marc Crawford outscored Doug Gilmour in one tournament.

I am aware that there is always the possibility of a WJ hero being an NHL zero, and yes, Eberle may not amount to much in the NHL, or he very well could. The point is he broke records, and came up huge when it mattered. The clutch performance is crucial. But you have to be aware that the same could happen for Karlsson. He was sent down to the AHL, only to be recalled. He's not been too impressive, maybe it's the coaching, who knows. He's no Doughty or Bogosian. Even Myers is playing better.

Jordan Eberle is a good prospect. He's not the second coming, though.

That was a little quick to judge. How do you know he won't be "the second coming"? He could be the 3rd, 4th or even 5th?

Just don't discount the possibilities. I know you love Karlsson, so that could be affecting your opinion, no? Sure, I am a fan of Eberle (who isn't right now?), but I am aware the possibility that he could be an epic disappointment. But right now, which drafted player not in the NHL has more momentum? Filatov, who was pretty disappointing in the WJ's and had the C removed from him, and seems to have controversy and coaching conflicts everywhere he goes lately.

If Edmonton trades Eberle for less than a huge return, the fans will be pissed off. If they keep him and he busts, the fans will be disappointed as well. But if you are Edmonton, it would take a lot to convince me to trade him.

I don't understand why you keep mentioning trading players. Prospects don't generally get a huge return for exactly the same reason as your first comment.

Asking if Karlsson will ever be more than a 5/6, though, is misleading because it emphasizes doubt over the transition from that position. Technically it's not wrong for me to ask if Taylor Hall will ever be anything more than an OHLer.

My second point was directed at
A) your insinuation (through the Spezza comment) that Edmonton would not trade Eberle for established NHL stars when I bet 90% of non-Edmonton/WJHC fan homers would agree that he's extremely unlikely to ever be in a position to put up 90 points in 68 games, especially given that he's most dangerous in-tight but he'll be playing against huge defencemen and he's not particularly big himself. There have been a lot of good, small players in the OHL that haven't panned out
B) your analogy equates Spezza with Tom Gilbert

I am aware that there is always the possibility of a WJ hero being an NHL zero, and yes, Eberle may not amount to much in the NHL, or he very well could. The point is he broke records, and came up huge when it mattered. The clutch performance is crucial. But you have to be aware that the same could happen for Karlsson. He was sent down to the AHL, only to be recalled. He's not been too impressive, maybe it's the coaching, who knows. He's no Doughty or Bogosian. Even Myers is playing better

I'm not saying Eberle won't amount to anything in the NHL, I'm saying that you're vastly, vastly overstating the significance of this tournament for his NHL career and NHL value. Crosby, Ovechkin and "maybe" Kovalchuk? You're saying that Edmonton wouldn't trade a guy playing in the WHL for Malkin or Nash.

Saying Karlsson isn't Doughty, Bogosian or Myers (at this point) is not at all a denigration. Doughty might end up a generational defenceman and is maybe the Sidney Crosby of the blue-line. Bogosian and Myers are also awesome (and, incidentally, were taken prior to Karlsson in the draft). But it's not fair to compare him to those players when we're debating versus Eberle. Is Jordan Eberle Steve Stamkos right now?

Karlsson is playing a harder positon (ie one that makes more time to learn) in a much, much better league. He was Top defenceman of the tournament last season at 18, Sweden's top skater of the tournament and the Final game, a tournament all-star, led his team in scoring and +/- (I believe), led all defencemen in scoring and then proceeded to head to a better league in the SEL and lead entire games in ice-time in the second round of the SEL playoffs. After that when he was sent down he put up a PPG in the AHL as a defenceman.

It's a testament to TSN's hyping of the WJHC that Eberle's admittedly very clutch three goals overshadow what Karlsson's accomplished and make him seem better than the guy actually playing in the NHL.

Also, as SpezD has pointed out, Eberle's statistics at this WJHC are almost identical to Petersson's, who is younger and about the same size.

Anyway, Eberle is a great kid and should have a bright future in the NHL. But you're overstating him, IMO.

what is everyone's opinion on the play of Cowen this year?

No question for me, I take Karlsson.

Although if you ask me about MPS or Cowen, I'd probably be ok about any of the 2, which probably means that I am cool with Cowen.

I moved this topic because it's more geared towards Junior talk than simply Ottawa Senators NHL talk.

TeamRenzo wrote:what is everyone's opinion on the play of Cowen this year?

He's obviously not fully recovered, but he's been very good in the 'Dub (captains the best defensive team by a significant margin, and is putting up offensive numbers) and his performance at the WJHC was disappointing but has a number of factors, not all of which should be traced to him.

I still think he's our best prospect and will end up as our #1 defenceman.

All I am trying to say is I doubt Eberle will be traded in the NHL right now, unless it is an offer Edmonton simply cannot refuse. It would likely have to be a bonafide NHL star, and what GM is going to trade away a star for a prospect, albeit a highly touted one? If Atlanta is going to trade Kovalchuk, is Edmonton going to offer up Eberle, who is younger and cheaper, and has potential to perhaps be as good as Ilya? Not to mention Edmonton, while they have everything a trading partner needs (cap space and prospects), they are out of a position to make a playoff run at this time. Unless they go on a tear, I don't see it as a possibility.

And as far as Spezza goes, he does not have a lot of value at the moment. Yes, he once put up some pretty good point totals (with Heatley and Alfredsson), but he is having an off year (we hope it is just an 'off' year) and he is injured. Eberle's value is really high, so Edmonton has all the advantage.

Ask the Avalanche GM if they would have traded Duchene before the season for Spezza, or the Isles for Tavares?

Anyways, I see your points and I understand where you are coming from, but I still think Eberle's value is way too high for Edmonton to just trade him for less than a great value, which as I said, would be so far off from what the other GM was looking for in return, that it would never happen.

The fact that some are mentioning trading Karlsson is laughable.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Dash wrote:Subban is a good player, but nothing like Eberle. Subban probably isn't even near Karlsson at this point. And Edmonton has a really deep defensive prospect chart.

Yeah. But is Eberle gregarious and engaging?

He may one day get engaged, have kids, and perhaps name one of them Gregory.

Does that count?

SDH89 wrote:The fact that some are mentioning trading Karlsson is laughable.

Who mentioned trading Kalrsson?

Dash wrote:

SDH89 wrote:The fact that some are mentioning trading Karlsson is laughable.

Who mentioned trading Kalrsson?

He must be referring to SSF's sarcastic remark about the EDM Blockbuster.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

Dash wrote:

SDH89 wrote:The fact that some are mentioning trading Karlsson is laughable.

Who mentioned trading Kalrsson?

He must be referring to SSF's sarcastic remark about the EDM Blockbuster.

No.