Team Canada roster -- Fisher got jobbed

LOL

Nick Kypreos made a second Canadian team and it looks pretty good. Scary how deep Canada is. Tried to type it down as I saw it, so hopefully I get this right, or get as many as I can remember.

Cammalleri, Savard, Carter, Lecavalier, B.Richards, St.Louis, Doan, Sharp, Fisher, Smyth, Stamkos*

Phaneuf, Bowumeester, Robidas, Green, Burns, Campbell

Roloson, Ward, Mason (not sure on the goalies really)

I love Stevie Y and all but I am concerned that there was a Western Conference bias on the selections. Yzerman and Babc0ck see western teams mostly and I think had their minds made up. Here are the numbers, you tell me...

Forwards

9 Western Conference
4 Eastern Conference

Defence

6 Western Conference
1 Eastern Conference

Goalies

1 Western Conference
2 Eastern Conference

Total

16 Western Conference
7 Eastern Conference

...and I don't buy that crap about the West being stronger, that is bull. The teams lie in wait for Eastern teams and play them at 10-10:30 PM (for us) 7-7:30 PM for them. When West comes East, it is just like playing afternoon games, no big deal. That skews the stats.

I don't think there's a Western conference conspiracy to be honest. Joe Thornton, Dany Heatley, Jarome Iginla, Duncan Keith, Scott Niedermayer, Ryan Getzlaf, Rick Nash, Corey Perry, Dan Boyle, Shea Weber, Roberto Luongo...are you really going to leave any of those guys off of the roster?

Sure Toews, Seabrook, Morrow and Marleau are iffy. But those guys are playing really well lately and they all bring elements that are needed to the team.

All this goes to show that 11 of the 16 guys from the Western conference on the team are no-brainers.

I am not saying it is much of a conspiracy as it is that the executives are coming from the Western conference and not knowing the east as well, they have a west heavy team. So lets look at the Eastern Conference players left off...

Vinny Lecavalier, Marty St. Loius, Steve Stamkos, Mike Green, Nathan Horton, Mike Cammalleri, Mike Fisher, Derek Roy... A good case could be made for any of these guys. Especially Green who leads all CDN born d-men in scoring.

Forget just Canadian defenceman, Green is leading ALL defenceman in scoring. As much as I love Doughty, I think Green should have had that 7th d-man spot. To think it was between J-Bo and Doughty...makes me wonder where Green was in this discussion.

Doughty might be leading the NHL in scoring if he was feeding Ovechkin. I'm not joking, in the slightest. And he's defensively sound.

The team's problem isn't likely to be scoring. Defense wins Championships and Green is a liability. I don't see any liabilities in the current roster.

MOI, there isn't a single player on your list^^ that I would prefer having in the lineup than those named.

hemlock wrote:Forget just Canadian defenceman, Green is leading ALL defenceman in scoring. As much as I love Doughty, I think Green should have had that 7th d-man spot. To think it was between J-Bo and Doughty...makes me wonder where Green was in this discussion.

Green has the benefit of playing with some All-World talent and a quick check reveals that almost 50% of his points come on the powerplay. Canada needs guys who are going to be super solid in every facet of the game, not just on the powerplay.

Mike Green might get his chance down the road if he can shake the label of being defensively average.

MurderOnIce wrote:I am not saying it is much of a conspiracy as it is that the executives are coming from the Western conference and not knowing the east as well, they have a west heavy team. So lets look at the Eastern Conference players left off...

Vinny Lecavalier, Marty St. Loius, Steve Stamkos, Mike Green, Nathan Horton, Mike Cammalleri, Mike Fisher, Derek Roy... A good case could be made for any of these guys. Especially Green who leads all CDN born d-men in scoring.

Apart from Stamkos, Fisher and St. Louis I doubt it. Horton is not Team Canada material, Cammalleri is one dimensional, Roy is an average player, Lecavalier has been in the dumps and Green isn't the kind of defenseman that can be trusted in a 6-game tournament.

Also, look at it the other way, look at the current roster and make a case for taking any of those guys out.

marakh wrote:

Devo wrote:

marakh wrote:How else do I explain his projected points? No idea, but that's irrelevant at this point IMO. I don't care about the points he's putting to be honest, he's not there to compete with Joe Thornton. I could say that the reason he doesn't put up huge numbers is because he plays on the 3rd worst team in the league in goals scored (still leads thet eam in points), but as I said, he's there to provide other dimensions, and he has chemistry with crosby as well as a WJC gold medal.

The fact is, he is 1st unit on the best PK team in the NHL, and it's not everybody on Team Canada that will provide that intangible.

So chemistry with Crosby and PK is what Bergeron is on the team for? I hope that isn't true, otherwise there are issues. There are plenty of people on the team who can play PK, and in fact do. Bergeron is a good player, but I still question his place on this team.

No, but it`s one thing he has that Mike Fisher doesn't, and it is enough. Also won a GOld medal on a line with Crosby. If you guys think chemistry isn't important, well, why do you think they have Getzlaf and Perry there, along with the entire SJ line, Keith and Seabrook. Do you guys think Seabrook is a better player than Bouwmeester? No chance. But he has chemistry with Keith.
You guys seriously underestimate the importance of winning it all at an international level. Mike FIsher has been on a Stanley cup final series, and he lost. The entire Team Canada staff thinks it is a big deal to have that experience, and sorry but I trust them more than fans on the internet.

Will you retract this position if Bergeron ends up playing on the fourth line and Crosby on the 1st? Or if Seabrook/Keith are not paired up?

By your argument you should put Perry and Bergeron on the top line with Crosby, since that was the line that won the Gold in 2005. Then Getzlaf can stay home because you no-longer need him.

Yes. Chemistry is important, but don't tell me that two guys (actually, three) who played together for two weeks five years ago somehow still have that chemistry.

Gohan wrote:Doughty might be leading the NHL in scoring if he was feeding Ovechkin. I'm not joking, in the slightest. And he's defensively sound.

The team's problem isn't likely to be scoring. Defense wins Championships and Green is a liability. I don't see any liabilities in the current roster.

MOI, there isn't a single player on your list^^ that I would prefer having in the lineup than those named.

We are all entitled to our opinions however I would take Green over Pronger, Doughty in this tournament any day of the week. When we have lost this tournament it is because we couldn't score. Green can score goals, he doesn't just feed Ovechkin, that is just silly. He has more offensive upside than ANY defenceman Canada could have. Sure he is not a great defensive player. Perhaps you don't play him in the last 5 minutes of a 1 goal game or partner him with a responsible player.

I would have taken Fisher over both Bergeron and Morrow. He is more physical than both, can play wing or center and has a real scoring touch this year.

I would take Lecavalier or St. Louis ahead of Toews and others. Vinny is built for big games on North American rinks PERIOD. St. Louis is just a money player. You know what you are gonna get.

Sure Camellerri is a bit one dimensional but it is a pretty good dimension to have. Are you saying that all of the other picks are well rounded?

At the end of the day, the numbers don't lie and if everyone overwhelmingly thinks all the best Canadian players play for Western teams than so be it but I would heartily disagree.

While I know what you're going for MOI, I would perhaps sub Seabrook for Green to add some nice offense - but Doughty is a better D-man right now. In fact, Doughty's gotta be looked at as a Norris candidate. He's Diddling amazing. I don't say that about other team's D-men that often, but he's ridiculously good. Blows Mike Green out of the water by a large margin (in my mind anyway).

SpezDispenser wrote:While I know what you're going for MOI, I would perhaps sub Seabrook for Green to add some nice offense - but Doughty is a better D-man right now. In fact, Doughty's gotta be looked at as a Norris candidate. He's Diddling amazing. I don't say that about other team's D-men that often, but he's ridiculously good. Blows Mike Green out of the water by a large margin (in my mind anyway).

It is all personal opinion in the end. Yzerman and Babc0ck are the ones that really matter.

I just do not think that 80% of Canada's best players play in the conference that the Canada's coach and GM happen to play in.

Leaving off Green is just a mistake. Imagine you are down a couple of goals and are desparate to score. Who else would you want on the blueline? Not many other players IMO.

MurderOnIce wrote:

Gohan wrote:Doughty might be leading the NHL in scoring if he was feeding Ovechkin. I'm not joking, in the slightest. And he's defensively sound.

The team's problem isn't likely to be scoring. Defense wins Championships and Green is a liability. I don't see any liabilities in the current roster.

MOI, there isn't a single player on your list^^ that I would prefer having in the lineup than those named.

We are all entitled to our opinions however I would take Green over Pronger, Doughty in this tournament any day of the week. When we have lost this tournament it is because we couldn't score. Green can score goals, he doesn't just feed Ovechkin, that is just silly. He has more offensive upside than ANY defenceman Canada could have. Sure he is not a great defensive player. Perhaps you don't play him in the last 5 minutes of a 1 goal game or partner him with a responsible player.

I would have taken Fisher over both Bergeron and Morrow. He is more physical than both, can play wing or center and has a real scoring touch this year.

I would take Lecavalier or St. Louis ahead of Toews and others. Vinny is built for big games on North American rinks PERIOD. St. Louis is just a money player. You know what you are gonna get.

Sure Camellerri is a bit one dimensional but it is a pretty good dimension to have. Are you saying that all of the other picks are well rounded?

At the end of the day, the numbers don't lie and if everyone overwhelmingly thinks all the best Canadian players play for Western teams than so be it but I would heartily disagree.

Minus Heatley, yeah...they are all well rounded players; much more so than Diddling Cammalleri, anyways. An argument for the Tampa twins can definitely be made (and I'm guessing St. Louis is either the 1st or 2nd injury replacement) but I still like the lineup as is.

Fisher over Bergeron or Morrow? Meh..I dunno. Depends on a lot of things and Fisher's 2 year slump, prior to this season, certainly has to be taken into account.

As for Doughty v. Green: you can not argue that Having Ovechkin, Semin and Backstrom (mainly the first two) on the ice with him doesn't improve his point totals---both in assists and in goals, because the others draw attention and that allows Green the time and space to do what he does. Put Doughty back there and he'd win Norris after Norris...which he'll probably end up doing with the Kings, anyways. He doesn't have the wrist shot that Green does, but he has a cannon and some of the finest vision I've ever seen on a 19 year old defenseman. Add in the fact that you can count on him during crunch time and it's a wash. Green didn't stand a chance.

MurderOnIce wrote:
It is all personal opinion in the end. Yzerman and Babc0ck are the ones that really matter.

I just do not think that 80% of Canada's best players play in the conference that the Canada's coach and GM happen to play in.

Leaving off Green is just a mistake. Imagine you are down a couple of goals and are desparate to score. Who else would you want on the blueline? Not many other players IMO.

It's the powerplay I would worry about a bit. Without Green, that PP isn't gonna be as potent no matter who's there. I think when the day is done Green will make it there. We've already seen on significant injury at forward, there'll be more for sure.

Who would you take off for Green? Pronger? I'm not discounting Green, but Boyle can do the PP as good as the next guy. and Pronger and Neidermayer too. Heck, Weber is an OFD as well. all these guys can put up 10+ goals/season and can do everything equally at both ends.

MurderOnIce wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:While I know what you're going for MOI, I would perhaps sub Seabrook for Green to add some nice offense - but Doughty is a better D-man right now. In fact, Doughty's gotta be looked at as a Norris candidate. He's Diddling amazing. I don't say that about other team's D-men that often, but he's ridiculously good. Blows Mike Green out of the water by a large margin (in my mind anyway).

It is all personal opinion in the end. Yzerman and Babc0ck are the ones that really matter.

I just do not think that 80% of Canada's best players play in the conference that the Canada's coach and GM happen to play in.

Leaving off Green is just a mistake. Imagine you are down a couple of goals and are desparate to score. Who else would you want on the blueline? Not many other players IMO.

I would be okay with Boyle, Niedermayer, Keith, and Weber, but your point is valid. Conversely, imagine you're up one goal with only a few minutes left. Who is the last person you want on your blueline? In the context of the discussion, Green is the winner by a country mile.

As for the East-West thing, I'm not sure what your beef is. The players chosen from the West are, at worst, on par with your proposed alternatives. They play in a tougher conference and are hardly poor choices for the team. Outside of Heatley, I like each selection made by Yzerman, and even then I can't fault him for taking one of the league's top-5 scorers.

Dash wrote:Who would you take off for Green? Pronger?

Seabrook. We have enough shutdown guys and we need more of an offensive player - although, I love the chemistry between Seabrook and Keith, but still...

Or Pronger. Man, does that guy ever SUCK this year. Wow.