Murray puts "CAP MANAGERS" worries at bay...

Murray, who says he has talked to most teams about dealing the two-time 50 goal scorer, was sent notification from agents J.P. Barry and Stacey McAlpine that their client would follow his obligations if a trade hasn’t been consummated in the next 23 days.

The more-than-$30 million and five years that are still left on Heatley’s deal has been a stumbling block in trade talks, as have concerns over his attitude. On the financial side of it, having Heatley and newly signed winger Alex Kovalev on the same balance sheet currently leaves the Senators about $1 million over budget.
“We’ll get to the cap,” said Murray. “I have a plan for that, but I can’t say anything about it now because it affects players. But we’ll get to the cap.”
There’s a chance it may include defenceman Jason Smith and eating the last year of his $2.6-million contract.
How Heatley fits back into the dressing room has to be more food for thought. No matter what anybody says, Heatley has proved he is more concerned with his own status than he is with the team’s success. Every other player wants more ice time, too, but none has demanded a trade over the issue.
Murray said he’s not concerned with what kind of effort he’d get from Heatley.
“There will be no problem with that at all,” he said. “We’ve never had a problem with Dany in that regard. I think he’s a pretty good hockey player, it’s an Olympic year and like I said, he’s a professional and a proud guy. There’s no question we’ll get nothing but his best effort.”

jamvan wrote:Murray, who says he has talked to most teams about dealing the two-time 50 goal scorer, was sent notification from agents J.P. Barry and Stacey McAlpine that their client would follow his obligations if a trade hasn’t been consummated in the next 23 days.

The more-than-$30 million and five years that are still left on Heatley’s deal has been a stumbling block in trade talks, as have concerns over his attitude. On the financial side of it, having Heatley and newly signed winger Alex Kovalev on the same balance sheet currently leaves the Senators about $1 million over budget.
“We’ll get to the cap,” said Murray. “I have a plan for that, but I can’t say anything about it now because it affects players. But we’ll get to the cap.”
There’s a chance it may include defenceman Jason Smith and eating the last year of his $2.6-million contract.
How Heatley fits back into the dressing room has to be more food for thought. No matter what anybody says, Heatley has proved he is more concerned with his own status than he is with the team’s success. Every other player wants more ice time, too, but none has demanded a trade over the issue.
Murray said he’s not concerned with what kind of effort he’d get from Heatley.
“There will be no problem with that at all,” he said. “We’ve never had a problem with Dany in that regard. I think he’s a pretty good hockey player, it’s an Olympic year and like I said, he’s a professional and a proud guy. There’s no question we’ll get nothing but his best effort.”

Yep, should be pretty easy to do this year. Smith on LTIR for about half the season, plus the loss of Schubert, would about do it. We are actually just under or at the cap, in fact, contrary to what this article seems to imply, although it's true we absolutely need to clear space.

The big concern, if Heatley stays, is our cap situation next year. We've got a lot of good young players up for re-signing, including Volchenkov (UFA) and Campoli, Foligno, Lee, Picard, and Shannon (RFA). Accommodating those raises while being handcuffed by our five big forward contracts, and facing a potential drop in the cap, will be just about impossible. Something has to give before July 1, 2010.

cap geek still seems to have us over the cap by about 560,000, I know nothing of the cap and how it works, but am wondering how they come to those numbers, next year looks pretty horrible, 12 players signed at about 47 mil already, another 10 players to sign for 9 million approximately.

SensFan71 wrote:cap geek still seems to have us over the cap by about 560,000, I know nothing of the cap and how it works, but am wondering how they come to those numbers, next year looks pretty horrible, 12 players signed at about 47 mil already, another 10 players to sign for 9 million approximately.

CapGeek's pre-set lineup has Regin on the roster, as a 13th forward / 22nd man. Regin's on a 2-way contract, however, and will most probably start the season in Bingo. Take off his salary, use the bonus cushion to eat up Foligno's small bonus ($65K), and we're actually about $44K under the cap -- not comfortable or sustainable at all, granted, but under.

The only way Regin makes the team is if he blows us away and makes the team; if he does that, however, he will not be there as a spare part (and extra or 13th forward) but a regular -- and, in that case, someone would have to be moved to make room for him.

With Tim Murray suggesting that Regin could be our 4th line center but will face competition from the likes of Bass and Smith. Pass. I'd rather he stayed in Bingo until he can be our 3rd line center and PK specialist (he can win faceoffs -- can Kelly?)

Apart from Regin, we'd also have to put Lee in Bingo. I'm sort-of OK with that -- with Karlsson here, for sure, next season, we would have to move one of Lee, Picard or Campoli. Ideally I'd have all three playing, and playing well, to improve their return value. Right now Lee is seen as a top-10 draft bust. There's a little negative bias about that, so even if both Lee and Picard have the same numbers, another team might be more inclined to prefer Picard simply because he is not seen as an underachiever. So I would prefer to keep Lee up.

Then there is the Karlsson situation. Murray sounds absolutely convinced that this kid has what it takes to make it to the NHL *this* year, out of camp. And that would put us $1.3M (less $44K) over the cap.

If Smith is still recovering from his injury then I don't see any problem in coming out and stating that. No harm done to the guy's reputation. He's a warrior and that leads to injuries. Like you said, he can spend half the season on the LTIR to give us $1.3M cap relief, plus some more time to make a trade or two. This would be easy, so I don't think this is what Murray had in mind when he couldn't say anything because it affects players.

[/b]So that leaves a demotion, buyout or trade. Only Lee, Foligno and Regin can be demoted. Foligno could be playing on the 1st line, so I doubt that happens. Regin is not in the lineup until the cap situation is resolved. Neither is Lee if Smith and/or Schubert are still there.

I don't think they can afford any more buyouts. They are still paying Emery, Hartsburg and Paddock (plus the Alfie buyout of the previous contract option). Enough is enough. Plus you don't buy out a guy like Smith (especially if LTIR is an option), and how much would you save by buying out Schubert?

So this leaves a trade as the only logical solution.

What do you guys think? Here is a possible two team trade for ottawa or possible a 3 way deal!! This is what each team ends up with!!

Ottawa - Clowe, Ehrhoff, Penner, Cogliano, Smid

San Jose - Heatley, Kelly, +draft pick

Edmonton - Cheechoo, Smith, Schubert, + draft pick


Ottawa ends up +200 if u drop Picard + winchester
Edmonton only loses 50,000 in cap space but saves 250,000 in bonuses
San Jose save 800,000 and maybe can swing a trade elsewhere for marleau

jaffy01 wrote:What do you guys think? Here is a possible two team trade for ottawa or possible a 3 way deal!! This is what each team ends up with!!

Ottawa - Clowe, Ehrhoff, Penner, Cogliano, Smid

San Jose - Heatley, Kelly, +draft pick

Edmonton - Cheechoo, Smith, Schubert, + draft pick


Ottawa ends up +200 if u drop Picard + winchester
Edmonton only loses 50,000 in cap space but saves 250,000 in bonuses
San Jose save 800,000 and maybe can swing a trade elsewhere for marleau

Marks for creativity but the more players that are involved, the more complicated it gets.

Edmonton is giving up Cogs, Penner and Smid to get Cheechoo plus Smith and Schubert(guys who might not play for them this year). Previously, July 1, the aforementioned trio was going to get them Heatley. I don't think Edmonton does this deal, even with a draft pick or two.

wprager wrote:With Tim Murray suggesting that Regin could be our 4th line center but will face competition from the likes of Bass and Smith. Pass. I'd rather he stayed in Bingo until he can be our 3rd line center and PK specialist (he can win faceoffs -- can Kelly?)

Apart from Regin, we'd also have to put Lee in Bingo. I'm sort-of OK with that -- with Karlsson here, for sure, next season, we would have to move one of Lee, Picard or Campoli. Ideally I'd have all three playing, and playing well, to improve their return value. Right now Lee is seen as a top-10 draft bust. There's a little negative bias about that, so even if both Lee and Picard have the same numbers, another team might be more inclined to prefer Picard simply because he is not seen as an underachiever. So I would prefer to keep Lee up.

Then there is the Karlsson situation. Murray sounds absolutely convinced that this kid has what it takes to make it to the NHL *this* year, out of camp. And that would put us $1.3M (less $44K) over the cap.

If Smith is still recovering from his injury then I don't see any problem in coming out and stating that. No harm done to the guy's reputation. He's a warrior and that leads to injuries. Like you said, he can spend half the season on the LTIR to give us $1.3M cap relief, plus some more time to make a trade or two. This would be easy, so I don't think this is what Murray had in mind when he couldn't say anything because it affects players.

[/b]So that leaves a demotion, buyout or trade. Only Lee, Foligno and Regin can be demoted. Foligno could be playing on the 1st line, so I doubt that happens. Regin is not in the lineup until the cap situation is resolved. Neither is Lee if Smith and/or Schubert are still there.

I don't think they can afford any more buyouts. They are still paying Emery, Hartsburg and Paddock (plus the Alfie buyout of the previous contract option). Enough is enough. Plus you don't buy out a guy like Smith (especially if LTIR is an option), and how much would you save by buying out Schubert?

So this leaves a trade as the only logical solution.

Good post and I agree, but there is a reason to not come out and say anything on Smith: Giving free information to rival GMs would be a dumb, dumb move.

Right now, in all dealings/talks (about Heatley or anyone else) Murray is in a position to ask for equal value cap returns or a cap savings, rather than being hamstrung by some GM who says "oh, well it looks like you're at the cap, but when you factor in Smith on the LTIR, really you have some room to take on more salary."

SensFan71 wrote:cap geek still seems to have us over the cap by about 560,000, I know nothing of the cap and how it works, but am wondering how they come to those numbers, next year looks pretty horrible, 12 players signed at about 47 mil already, another 10 players to sign for 9 million approximately.

First thing to know about next year is that there's going to be some roll over. Regin, Bass, Smith, Cowen, maybe Wiercioch and O'Brien will be with the big club full time. Right there, assuming Regin hasn't had a breakout year which would pretty well Diddle us (which is one reason I'm pretty sure no matter what he does in camp, he will be Bingo bound), then we've got 4-6 players signed at 1.3 or well below.

Yeah its tight and yeah we need to move Heatley no later than July 1st 2010, but we have some decent young talent and affordable contracts coming through the pipeline that will help us there.

rooneypoo wrote:
Yep, should be pretty easy to do this year. Smith on LTIR for about half the season, plus the loss of Schubert, would about do it. We are actually just under or at the cap, in fact, contrary to what this article seems to imply, although it's true we absolutely need to clear space.

The big concern, if Heatley stays, is our cap situation next year. We've got a lot of good young players up for re-signing, including Volchenkov (UFA) and Campoli, Foligno, Lee, Picard, and Shannon (RFA). Accommodating those raises while being handcuffed by our five big forward contracts, and facing a potential drop in the cap, will be just about impossible. Something has to give before July 1, 2010.

I believe you've made this mistake before (and I expect better from the resident cap wizard ) but Shannon should actually be a UFA next summer. Obviously I'm not 100%, but I'm somewhere in the 90's on that...

What you say is very true, though: Heatley staying for the length of his contract would put us in a terrible position cap-wise. That being said, I wouldn't be too surprised to see a luxury tax instituted in the NHL in the next few seasons.

cas wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:
Yep, should be pretty easy to do this year. Smith on LTIR for about half the season, plus the loss of Schubert, would about do it. We are actually just under or at the cap, in fact, contrary to what this article seems to imply, although it's true we absolutely need to clear space.

The big concern, if Heatley stays, is our cap situation next year. We've got a lot of good young players up for re-signing, including Volchenkov (UFA) and Campoli, Foligno, Lee, Picard, and Shannon (RFA). Accommodating those raises while being handcuffed by our five big forward contracts, and facing a potential drop in the cap, will be just about impossible. Something has to give before July 1, 2010.

I believe you've made this mistake before (and I expect better from the resident cap wizard ) but Shannon should actually be a UFA next summer. Obviously I'm not 100%, but I'm somewhere in the 90's on that...

What you say is very true, though: Heatley staying for the length of his contract would put us in a terrible position cap-wise. That being said, I wouldn't be too surprised to see a luxury tax instituted in the NHL in the next few seasons.

Yep, my bad, Shannon is UFA next year. The point remains entirely the same, tho': we have a lot of pending FAs to deal with next year.

As for staying the course cap-wise and holding out for miraculous last-minute changes to the CBA (not what you're saying precisely, I know, but I've seen this argument before), I don't think that's wise. Time to nip this problem in the bud. It's been one since the moment we re-signed Heatley and Spezza.

rooneypoo wrote:

cas wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:
Yep, should be pretty easy to do this year. Smith on LTIR for about half the season, plus the loss of Schubert, would about do it. We are actually just under or at the cap, in fact, contrary to what this article seems to imply, although it's true we absolutely need to clear space.

The big concern, if Heatley stays, is our cap situation next year. We've got a lot of good young players up for re-signing, including Volchenkov (UFA) and Campoli, Foligno, Lee, Picard, and Shannon (RFA). Accommodating those raises while being handcuffed by our five big forward contracts, and facing a potential drop in the cap, will be just about impossible. Something has to give before July 1, 2010.

I believe you've made this mistake before (and I expect better from the resident cap wizard ) but Shannon should actually be a UFA next summer. Obviously I'm not 100%, but I'm somewhere in the 90's on that...

What you say is very true, though: Heatley staying for the length of his contract would put us in a terrible position cap-wise. That being said, I wouldn't be too surprised to see a luxury tax instituted in the NHL in the next few seasons.

Yep, my bad, Shannon is UFA next year. The point remains entirely the same, tho': we have a lot of pending FAs to deal with next year.

As for staying the course cap-wise and holding out for miraculous last-minute changes to the CBA (not what you're saying precisely, I know, but I've seen this argument before), I don't think that's wise. Time to nip this problem in the bud. It's been one since the moment we re-signed Heatley and Spezza.

I think having Heatley and Spezza on those deals looks much worse because of the contracts of guys like Fisher.

hemlock wrote:

I think having Heatley and Spezza on those deals looks much worse because of the contracts of guys like Fisher.

Yeah, that's true -- as I think just about everyone who's been paying attention recognizes, the larger problem has been that our cap money allocation is very top heavy, and centred around too few people. $23+ mil on 4 forwards is a lot. Most teams fill out their top 6 with that kind of money, sometimes with change to spare. By contrast, we get one line, plus a 2nd line centre who might not be a true 2nd line centre.

rooneypoo wrote:

hemlock wrote:

I think having Heatley and Spezza on those deals looks much worse because of the contracts of guys like Fisher.

Yeah, that's true -- as I think just about everyone who's been paying attention recognizes, the larger problem has been that our cap money allocation is very top heavy, and centred around too few people. $23+ mil on 4 forwards is a lot. Most teams fill out their top 6 with that kind of money, sometimes with change to spare. By contrast, we get one line, plus a 2nd line centre who might not be a true 2nd line centre.

Yeah, spreading it around is ideal. Calgary seems like the anti-us now though. I think their blueline costs $45 million doesn't it? :^^^^:

rooneypoo wrote:

hemlock wrote:

I think having Heatley and Spezza on those deals looks much worse because of the contracts of guys like Fisher.

Yeah, that's true -- as I think just about everyone who's been paying attention recognizes, the larger problem has been that our cap money allocation is very top heavy, and centred around too few people. $23+ mil on 4 forwards is a lot. Most teams fill out their top 6 with that kind of money, sometimes with change to spare. By contrast, we get one line, plus a 2nd line centre who might not be a true 2nd line centre.

I agree completely that it's a lot, but I think that when you have 3 legitimate elite forwards, it's to be expected that the forward core is expensive. There's no question in my mind that the Pizza line (HATE that name) could easily be an all-star line. You pay for that kind of talent.

I hope, as many others have stated, that this situation allows us to retain some of the talent level while spreading out the money a little bit more. Two good, 45+ point producers at what we pay for Heatley would be great.

Moreover, I think that stocking the forward cupboard in Bingo is a reasonable and legitimate return provided we get at least one top-six forward in the deal. I wouldn't be terribly disappointed with Setoguchi, 1st, Couture and McGinn for Heater. We get some cap space, potential with another first, and the potential of a couple good prospects. That scenario, coupled with the point production we'll get from Setoguchi and Kovalev and I think we're in good shape. I'm sure many will disagree though.