Another Heatley rumor to throw on the pile...

asq2 wrote:

FireOnIce wrote:Asq, I am going to assume that you like prospects as per your avatar and signature.

I think that is also why you highly overrate them. In your first paragraph, you name 8 prospects. You do realize that the odds are that only one of the 8 reach their projected potential. 3 will not make 100 games in the NHL and the other 4 will have average careers.

The above stats are taken from the Top 10 picks in every first round draft their has ever been and an average was created. Some of your listed names are not Top 10 picks, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

No, I was not aware that prospects have the possibility of busting.

The sarcasm is high is this one.

If you understand that prospects bust and continue to fail to live up to hype, how is it possible that you think Toronto is "set-up for the future"? Remember that right after you said this, you went on to name 8 prospects.

I just don't see it.

But again, sorry for disagreeing with you and having an opinion of my own that I posted in a factual and professional manner.

I thought this was a heatley rumour thread then we began evaluating the leafs so maybe we should turn this back to another horrible heatley thread

you are right HH, and unfortunately, he is still on our team, better prepare for life with him this year.

FireOnIce wrote:

asq2 wrote:

FireOnIce wrote:Asq, I am going to assume that you like prospects as per your avatar and signature.

I think that is also why you highly overrate them. In your first paragraph, you name 8 prospects. You do realize that the odds are that only one of the 8 reach their projected potential. 3 will not make 100 games in the NHL and the other 4 will have average careers.

The above stats are taken from the Top 10 picks in every first round draft their has ever been and an average was created. Some of your listed names are not Top 10 picks, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

No, I was not aware that prospects have the possibility of busting.

I'm just saying that to say Toronto is set-up going forward as you put it, is not how I see it.

Sorry for disagreeing with you I guess.

Thanks for the discussion.

You don't have to apologize. That was a bit of an arseholeish response from me. I was just getting my thoughts together.

You're right, prospects do bust - frequently. Obviously, the discussions we have are on-paper (or on-screen discussions), so we tend to look at what players are supposed to be, rather than what they are. Heck, you also don't know if a player is going to pull a Wade Redden '05-'06 to '06-'07 -type decline (to put it mildly).

The weakness, as you've pointed out, for the organization is that they don't have young talent that's proven at the NHL level at the forward position. Trust that they are not the only team banking on improving a position dramatically via integration of prospects: heck, the Sens are praying like crazy that Karlsson, Cowen and Wiercioch can fulfill their respective potentials.

The Leafs don't have much talent at the forward position period, so they're going to have to look to the future to compete, ie. at their prospects. I feel Burke has laid a good foundation in that regard, though I suggest he should look at acquiring a corner-stone forward (and since I'm not sure they have the assets or the opportunity to acquire a young, proven one, they'll have to take a chance on a high-end prospect). I was also not a fan of them moving Stralman, because they don't have many youthful puck-movers.

Anyway, I guess I feel they're doing well because they've got young talent (albeit unproven talent) at every position, and they're largely unstrangled by big contracts. As teams with proven young talent begin to feel the squeeze (say, the Pittsburghs, Columbuses and Chicagos), the Leafs will be able to step in, acquire some talent while ideally having their own youth mature and develop.

i am beginning to think that keeping heatley wont be bad provided he has a turn around in attitude if the locker room can be good then we will be pretty deep and have a decent run this year....also back to that initial rumour frolov is a good piece he may be a bit streaky but the last 4 years he has put up 50+ points thats not bad but we obvioulsy need more than just him preferable for me prospects and picks

FireOnIce wrote:

asq2 wrote:

FireOnIce wrote:Asq, I am going to assume that you like prospects as per your avatar and signature.

I think that is also why you highly overrate them. In your first paragraph, you name 8 prospects. You do realize that the odds are that only one of the 8 reach their projected potential. 3 will not make 100 games in the NHL and the other 4 will have average careers.

The above stats are taken from the Top 10 picks in every first round draft their has ever been and an average was created. Some of your listed names are not Top 10 picks, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

No, I was not aware that prospects have the possibility of busting.

The sarcasm is high is this one.

If you understand that prospects bust and continue to fail to live up to hype, how is it possible that you think Toronto is "set-up for the future"? Remember that right after you said this, you went on to name 8 prospects.

I just don't see it.

But again, sorry for disagreeing with you and having an opinion of my own that I posted in a factual and professional manner.

I named four that they have on their team (one of whom, Kulemin, has played in the NHL already). Hall, Kabanov, McFarland and Pulkkinen are suggestions for how to find a corner-stone offensive player. What is your suggestion in that regard? That they try to trade for a Patrick Kane or Rick Nash? Proven young star forwards are not easily acquired these days - that the Leafs don't currently have one is, I suppose one could say, their weakness.

asq2 wrote:

FireOnIce wrote:

asq2 wrote:

FireOnIce wrote:Asq, I am going to assume that you like prospects as per your avatar and signature.

I think that is also why you highly overrate them. In your first paragraph, you name 8 prospects. You do realize that the odds are that only one of the 8 reach their projected potential. 3 will not make 100 games in the NHL and the other 4 will have average careers.

The above stats are taken from the Top 10 picks in every first round draft their has ever been and an average was created. Some of your listed names are not Top 10 picks, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

No, I was not aware that prospects have the possibility of busting.

I'm just saying that to say Toronto is set-up going forward as you put it, is not how I see it.

Sorry for disagreeing with you I guess.

Thanks for the discussion.

You don't have to apologize. That was a bit of an arseholeish response from me. I was just getting my thoughts together.

You're right, prospects do bust - frequently. Obviously, the discussions we have are on-paper (or on-screen discussions), so we tend to look at what players are supposed to be, rather than what they are. Heck, you also don't know if a player is going to pull a Wade Redden '05-'06 to '06-'07 -type decline (to put it mildly).

The weakness, as you've pointed out, for the organization is that they don't have young talent that's proven at the NHL level at the forward position. Trust that they are not the only team banking on improving a position dramatically via integration of prospects: heck, the Sens are praying like crazy that Karlsson, Cowen and Wiercioch can fulfill their respective potentials.

The Leafs don't have much talent at the forward position period, so they're going to have to look to the future to compete, ie. at their prospects. I feel Burke has laid a good foundation in that regard, though I suggest he should look at acquiring a corner-stone forward (and since I'm not sure they have the assets or the opportunity to acquire a young, proven one, they'll have to take a chance on a high-end prospect). I was also not a fan of them moving Stralman, because they don't have many youthful puck-movers.

Anyway, I guess I feel they're doing well because they've got young talent (albeit unproven talent) at every position, and they're largely unstrangled by big contracts. As teams with proven young talent begin to feel the squeeze (say, the Pittsburghs, Columbuses and Chicagos), the Leafs will be able to step in, acquire some talent while ideally having their own youth mature and develop.

LOL. :^^^: You had me after your first 3 sentences. :^^^:

I really have to go, but I will comeback and read this on next login. I just had to type that though. Nice work.

:$$$$:

they could try and trade but they have nothing to trade with except kaberle which if i am correct now has a no trade now???(let me know because i am not sure)

but why are we evaluating the leafs??

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:they could try and trade but they have nothing to trade with except kaberle which if i am correct now has a no trade now???(let me know because i am not sure)

but why are we evaluating the leafs??

Stemmed from the discussion of the Leafs' hilarious offer.

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:i am beginning to think that keeping heatley wont be bad provided he has a turn around in attitude if the locker room can be good then we will be pretty deep and have a decent run this year....also back to that initial rumour frolov is a good piece he may be a bit streaky but the last 4 years he has put up 50+ points thats not bad but we obvioulsy need more than just him preferable for me prospects and picks

With the addition of Kovalev, we can afford to take Frolov and prospects/picks. I think Frolov is a good fit. He's reportedly bed buddies with Volchenkov, and having Kovy around will help him feel more at home. I'd love to see a guy like Purcell and a prospect like Voinov.

hemlock wrote:

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:i am beginning to think that keeping heatley wont be bad provided he has a turn around in attitude if the locker room can be good then we will be pretty deep and have a decent run this year....also back to that initial rumour frolov is a good piece he may be a bit streaky but the last 4 years he has put up 50+ points thats not bad but we obvioulsy need more than just him preferable for me prospects and picks

With the addition of Kovalev, we can afford to take Frolov and prospects/picks. I think Frolov is a good fit. He's reportedly bed buddies with Volchenkov, and having Kovy around will help him feel more at home. I'd love to see a guy like Purcell and a prospect like Voinov.

i hope you meant best buddies

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:i am beginning to think that keeping heatley wont be bad provided he has a turn around in attitude if the locker room can be good then we will be pretty deep and have a decent run this year....also back to that initial rumour frolov is a good piece he may be a bit streaky but the last 4 years he has put up 50+ points thats not bad but we obvioulsy need more than just him preferable for me prospects and picks

With the addition of Kovalev, we can afford to take Frolov and prospects/picks. I think Frolov is a good fit. He's reportedly bed buddies with Volchenkov, and having Kovy around will help him feel more at home. I'd love to see a guy like Purcell and a prospect like Voinov.

i hope you meant best buddies

Oh. My. God.

Yes, I meant best buddies. I'm at work trying to do this on the sly and getting distracted.

Worse. Slip. Ever.

did make me laugh though

hemlock wrote:

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:i am beginning to think that keeping heatley wont be bad provided he has a turn around in attitude if the locker room can be good then we will be pretty deep and have a decent run this year....also back to that initial rumour frolov is a good piece he may be a bit streaky but the last 4 years he has put up 50+ points thats not bad but we obvioulsy need more than just him preferable for me prospects and picks

With the addition of Kovalev, we can afford to take Frolov and prospects/picks. I think Frolov is a good fit. He's reportedly bed buddies with Volchenkov, and having Kovy around will help him feel more at home. I'd love to see a guy like Purcell and a prospect like Voinov.

I'd like Teubert a lot (knowing full-well that he can bust ). A right-handed bruising defenceman seems like an ideal fit for a future top-4 featuring other equally plausibly busting prospects like Cowen, Karlsson and Wiercioch:

Cowen - Karlsson
Wiercioch - Teubert

PP pairing one: Wiercioch - Karlsson (potentially a Redden and Chara, offensively anyway, with Redden having a better shot)
PK pairing one: Cowen - Teubert (potentially a Phillips - Volchenkov tandem circa the Cup Finals run).

Teubert eh? I love that guy's mean streak for sure, but I think I'd rather have a skilled d-man. Teubert is probably closer to making the NHL though for sure.

A Cowen-Teubert pairing would be better offensively than Philchenkov no?

hemlock wrote:

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:i am beginning to think that keeping heatley wont be bad provided he has a turn around in attitude if the locker room can be good then we will be pretty deep and have a decent run this year....also back to that initial rumour frolov is a good piece he may be a bit streaky but the last 4 years he has put up 50+ points thats not bad but we obvioulsy need more than just him preferable for me prospects and picks

With the addition of Kovalev, we can afford to take Frolov and prospects/picks. I think Frolov is a good fit. He's reportedly bed buddies with Volchenkov, and having Kovy around will help him feel more at home. I'd love to see a guy like Purcell and a prospect like Voinov.

i hope you meant best buddies

Oh. My. God.

Yes, I meant best buddies. I'm at work trying to do this on the sly and getting distracted.

Worse. Slip. Ever.

I thought it was semi-intentional. Still gives the same idea, though with different implications.

asq2 wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:i am beginning to think that keeping heatley wont be bad provided he has a turn around in attitude if the locker room can be good then we will be pretty deep and have a decent run this year....also back to that initial rumour frolov is a good piece he may be a bit streaky but the last 4 years he has put up 50+ points thats not bad but we obvioulsy need more than just him preferable for me prospects and picks

With the addition of Kovalev, we can afford to take Frolov and prospects/picks. I think Frolov is a good fit. He's reportedly bed buddies with Volchenkov, and having Kovy around will help him feel more at home. I'd love to see a guy like Purcell and a prospect like Voinov.

i hope you meant best buddies

Oh. My. God.

Yes, I meant best buddies. I'm at work trying to do this on the sly and getting distracted.

Worse. Slip. Ever.

I thought it was semi-intentional. Still gives the same idea, though with different implications.

Don't you hate it when work interferes with the real important stuff !

asq2 wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:i am beginning to think that keeping heatley wont be bad provided he has a turn around in attitude if the locker room can be good then we will be pretty deep and have a decent run this year....also back to that initial rumour frolov is a good piece he may be a bit streaky but the last 4 years he has put up 50+ points thats not bad but we obvioulsy need more than just him preferable for me prospects and picks

With the addition of Kovalev, we can afford to take Frolov and prospects/picks. I think Frolov is a good fit. He's reportedly bed buddies with Volchenkov, and having Kovy around will help him feel more at home. I'd love to see a guy like Purcell and a prospect like Voinov.

i hope you meant best buddies

Oh. My. God.

Yes, I meant best buddies. I'm at work trying to do this on the sly and getting distracted.

Worse. Slip. Ever.

I thought it was semi-intentional. Still gives the same idea, though with different implications.

No it wasn't. Like I said, I at work, where personal internet use is frowned upon, so I am semi distracted.

On a related note to these 3 way deals, am I the only one who would love to see Phoenix as the 3rd party?

i would really hope to get some forward depth coming into our system if teubert was offered cant say no but i think the sens really need some young forward prospects with potential of being a top six

Edit: damn edit button!