Sens/Neil closer than we thought?

Put it this way, if Comrie gets resigned and Neil doesnt, I'll never pay for an Ottawa Senators game again, and basically just throw in the towel as a Sens fan. Why... because that would just plain and simply be wrong.

but it might be a little more complicated than that if murray already has his sights on a forward which may indicate that the extra 750k or whatever difference from bass isnt available ....i know that would mean the sens are closer to the roof then they would like not necessarily....i do think that they should sign neil and they shouldnt have that type of problem

If the Sens cant find 1.5 million in cap room for Neil then there is something seriously wrong with BM and the rest of the front office. Even if the cap goes down to 50 mil, that 3% of the cap hit for Neil, let alone it probably getting close to 60 mil this year.

It will be a sad day in Sens history.

it does depend on if BM actually tries to sign a bigger name for up front i dont agree with it and think if we can get neil at 1.5 we should keep him but just offering up other issues that could arise

Then you deal with them going forward because Neil f-ing off to another city when they are that close to signing would be a crime. There is a reason that come UFA season guys like Burke and Wilson will be throwing 2 mil plus at this guy.

He might not have been worth the draft pick they were asking for because teams are unsure, but you can damn well be garenteed that if they are getting Neil for nothing, there will be enough cash thrown at him that shows you his true worth.

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:but it might be a little more complicated than that if murray already has his sights on a forward which may indicate that the extra 750k or whatever difference from bass isnt available ....i know that would mean the sens are closer to the roof then they would like not necessarily....i do think that they should sign neil and they shouldnt have that type of problem

If Murray signes Neil for 1.5 and moves Kelly's 2.1 then there is a savings of approximately 600k. Move Schuber then you've gained another 883k approximately. Moving both Schubert and Kelly open up 2 spots. Smith becomes the question mark. Personally I would like to keep Smith and have him placed on LITR until January. Let him heal up properly and of course I can't see Murray carrying 3 goalies. At 1.5 for Neil doesn't really hurt our cap situation at the moment.

1.5 is a drop in the bucket. There are no question marks with Neil, you know EXACTLY what you're getting. There is no risk, no gamble.

You make room for Neil, you dont fit him in.

Im going under the assumption it will be 1.5 mil. At 2 mil plus it stops making sense because then Neil is then showing he might be more in this for the money, but 1.5 is more than reasonable.

Neil is a blockhead who makes easily the worst decisions with the puck of any player on the team. He doesn't PK, isn't all that fast, doesn't have great hands, and frequently takes head-shakingly bad penalties. He's also rarely used on the PP and he even more rarely contributes when he gets the opportunity.

His physical presence can't be underestimated, but you are WAY overblowing his contribution to this team Imo.

His contribution to the team goes beyond on ice performance. In 07/08 he had an awful season and the penalties were frustrating everyone, i'll give you that, but last year he was back to normal even though the offensive production wasnt there.

I think resigning Neil is an absolute essential need for this team because there is no one who can do the job he does on the ice, and very few in Ottawa currently who does what he does off the ice. (at this point its just as important)

On the ice: Who says we need someone to do what he does? Lots of successful teams don't have a player who does what he does... Detroit comes to mind...
The thing I have the hardest time understanding is the people who want to trade Kelly because he "costs too much" but are also willing to give Neil the number he wants...
For me, anyone who wants to trade Kelly and wants to re-sign Neil just has a very strange view of this teams needs.

off the ice: Losing a veteran presence is one thing, but I have a hard time believing he's an irreplaceable presence... He may be a character guy and a community guy, but there's no way that should be a determining factor on whether or not to keep him. I mean, we kept Redden... Look how well that turned out.

Look at this roster:
Heatley-Spezza-Alfie
Foligno-Fisher-Shannon
Ruutu-Kelly-Regin
Donovan-Winchester-Bass

Personally, there isn't a single player there that I would want to take a roster spot away from in order to slot Neil in. The only one who i would consider it for is Donovan, but Dono can PK, busts his Donkey even if he only sees 3 minutes of ice time, has decent touch and blazing speed, and makes much better decisions with the puck. Add in his cap hit vs Neil's forecasted cap hit and its a no-brainer.

Given the way Neil has played over the past two seasons, he's no better than a 4th liner. We're already paying 6.5 million combined for two 3rd liners...Do we really need to add to the total of our bottom 6, when we have perfectly seviceable replacements on rookie contracts??

As for the Bass vs. Neil argument you used earlier: No Bass can't really handle the heavyweights Neil can, but Bass can skate like the wind, can play both center and wing, and most importantly can play a regular shift on the PK. He thinks the game at about the same rate as Neil (probably a little higher) only he isn't a 6 year vet...

cash wrote:Look at this roster:
Heatley-Spezza-Alfie
Foligno-Fisher-Shannon
Ruutu-Kelly-Regin
Donovan-Winchester-Bass

I agree with everything you said, but if they put Regin with Kelly and Ruutu AND put him on the wing, I will write angry letters to Clouston. That's a waste of his talent.

I agree. The problem being that, right out of training camp, you can't take 4.2 million and put it on the 3rd line. I'm hopeful that Regin and Fisher will switch places at some point during the season.
I can't really foresee how Regin will look next to Foligno or Shannon or Winchester or whoever, but I also think he definitely belongs on the 2nd line with some quality wingers.

If we've got a bottom 6 of

Ruutu-Fisher-Kelly
Donovan-Winchester-Bass

then we're looking pretty damn good up front.

cash wrote:On the ice: Who says we need someone to do what he does? Lots of successful teams don't have a player who does what he does... Detroit comes to mind...
The thing I have the hardest time understanding is the people who want to trade Kelly because he "costs too much" but are also willing to give Neil the number he wants...
For me, anyone who wants to trade Kelly and wants to re-sign Neil just has a very strange view of this teams needs.

off the ice: Losing a veteran presence is one thing, but I have a hard time believing he's an irreplaceable presence... He may be a character guy and a community guy, but there's no way that should be a determining factor on whether or not to keep him. I mean, we kept Redden... Look how well that turned out.

Look at this roster:
Heatley-Spezza-Alfie
Foligno-Fisher-Shannon
Ruutu-Kelly-Regin
Donovan-Winchester-Bass

Personally, there isn't a single player there that I would want to take a roster spot away from in order to slot Neil in. The only one who i would consider it for is Donovan, but Dono can PK, busts his Donkey even if he only sees 3 minutes of ice time, has decent touch and blazing speed, and makes much better decisions with the puck. Add in his cap hit vs Neil's forecasted cap hit and its a no-brainer.

Given the way Neil has played over the past two seasons, he's no better than a 4th liner. We're already paying 6.5 million combined for two 3rd liners...Do we really need to add to the total of our bottom 6, when we have perfectly seviceable replacements on rookie contracts??

As for the Bass vs. Neil argument you used earlier: No Bass can't really handle the heavyweights Neil can, but Bass can skate like the wind, can play both center and wing, and most importantly can play a regular shift on the PK. He thinks the game at about the same rate as Neil (probably a little higher) only he isn't a 6 year vet...

I am curious as to why you would compare Kelly to Neil. They are 2 different types of players. Like Neil, Kelly's entagibles could be replaced by a younger player.

granted regin showed alot of positives last year, i'm still out on him, even shannon i'm not 100% sold on. i know that might get some mad but once i see repeat performances out of players two years in a row then i'll believe. at this point i only see alot of crossed fingers. what we really need is a bonafied top 6 foward. to make room for that we might have to clear kelly and not resign neal. god love the heart he's put in the team... as for all the talk of shubert being gone, smith traded and also kelly traded...? i'm not sure that'll hapen either. kelly's 2.1 mill & jason's 2.6 is alot to swallow for teams trying to shed as for shubie... dream on... we couldn't get rid of him even if we wanted to take salary in return. bar he has a break-out year he's playing his last year in the NHL.

cash wrote:I agree. The problem being that, right out of training camp, you can't take 4.2 million and put it on the 3rd line. I'm hopeful that Regin and Fisher will switch places at some point during the season.
I can't really foresee how Regin will look next to Foligno or Shannon or Winchester or whoever, but I also think he definitely belongs on the 2nd line with some quality wingers.

If we've got a bottom 6 of

Ruutu-Fisher-Kelly
Donovan-Winchester-Bass

then we're looking pretty damn good up front.

you may not be sold on the young guns but we need to start letting the young guys come up and play in the big club

This is one thing I have always been very firm with and that's loyalty. What Neil has done for the Sens cannot and should not be ignored. I dont think a guy like Bass should get a spot over Neil (as much as I love Bass) or even a guy like Donovan.

Throwing Neil out on his Donkey is wrong, there are only a handful of guys in Ottawa who know what it is like to truly be a Senator and how much it means to be in Ottawa. That is as important as anything in terms of leadership going forward. You think guy's like Spezza and Heatley give a damn? Hell no. Those are the last two guys I would want our young guys around.

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:you may not be sold on the young guns but we need to start letting the young guys come up and play in the big club

oh, completely agree.

Phoenix30 wrote:

cash wrote:
For me, anyone who wants to trade Kelly and wants to re-sign Neil just has a very strange view of this teams needs.

I am curious as to why you would compare Kelly to Neil. They are 2 different types of players. Like Neil, Kelly's entagibles could be replaced by a younger player.

I'm not comparing their styles of play. I'm contrasting their relative value to the team. Anyone who thinks Neil does more for the team than Kelly does just doesn't watch hockey properly. Kelly is a premiere defensive forward who thinks the game at an extremely high pace and is almost always in the right position. If he had any semblance of touch, he'd be a 5 million dollar player easy!

Its about roster positions...There's always a spot on my team for Kelly; Neil, not so much...