How Much Longer For The Coyotes in Phoenix?

The case of the Phoenix Coyotes gets stranger and stranger.

First it was the Gretzky gambling case.

Then it was the stories that Jerry Moyes, the owner of the Coyotes, was $30 million in the hole.

Since then, the speculation that the team will be bought, moved or folded has turned into a fireball of rumours.

There was talk of Hollywood producer Jerry Bruckheimer buying the team and moving it to Las Vegas...since squashed.

The NHL declared it was actively speaking with new investors.

But the news that the NHL is actively looking at putting a second team into the Greater Toronto/Southern Ontario region fueled those rumours of an imminent move.

Now, the NHL has stepped in and made one loan to the Coyotes...that we know about.

It's not the first time NHL franchises have been on shaky ground: Dallas, Buffalo, New York Islanders, Tampa, Pittsburgh, St. Louis and Hartford (now Carolina) were all the beneficiaries of loans from the league, and Ottawa fans remember the Senators' bankruptcy.

So what next for the Phoenix Coyotes?

Will they stay or will they go?

Or is this an entry point for a team returning to Canada?

Jim Balsillie may be rubbing his hands...

Here's a story from Ground Zero, from the Arizona Republic:

Coyotes deny that NHL is in control

Craig Harris - Apr. 29, 2009, The Arizona Republic

The NHL, which loaned the Coyotes money in February to keep the team in business, is now running the franchise and has promised Glendale that it would reimburse the city for parking fees and security costs owed by the team, Glendale City Manager Ed Beasley said.

"The NHL is in charge of the team right now," Beasley said. "We have assurances from the NHL the money will be paid. . . . We are sitting down with the NHL and working confidentially with them, and the city expects to be paid in full."

Coyotes President Doug Moss refuted that report late Wednesday night, saying the league has not assumed control of the Coyotes.

"We are not reporting to the league," he said. "We report to (owner) Jerry Moyes. I'm dealing with things in my area, the business side, and Donnie (General Manager Don Maloney) is dealing with the hockey side.

"It's business as usual. He's preparing for the draft. I'm preparing for next year on marketing and sales."

The NHL has helped other financially challenged teams, and since the 1980s it has loaned money to franchises in Dallas, Buffalo, New York, Tampa, Pittsburgh, St. Louis and Hartford, according to publicly filed financial statements. However, having a league operate one of its own franchises is rare in professional sports.

Beasley said the NHL started running the team around the time the rent payment was made in late February. It remains unclear what role the NHL has in operating the franchise.

In August, the Coyotes stopped paying the city rent, parking fees and most of its security costs at Jobing.com Arena, according to Glendale city records. The city was paid nearly $351,000 for past-due rent on Feb. 25, the day after the NHL agreed to loan the team an unspecified amount.

As part of the loan agreement, the league had the right to take over the franchise if NHL loan was not paid.

"We have been told from the NHL that they are responsible for the team," Beasley said.

Beasley declined to say how much was owed in parking fees and security cost at Jobing.com Arena, home of the Coyotes.

City records show that over the past four years, from August to April - the current time frame the city has not been paid - the Coyotes paid Glendale from $577,000 to nearly $2.5 million for parking and security costs.

Most of that comes from parking fees the team collects as a surcharge on ticket sales, which allows those attending events at the arena to park for free.

This can't continue much longer... it's been said they'll start the season in Phoenix next year... but will they finish? The bleeding needs to stop. Move this franchise to the GTA and get some profitability going. Screw Bettman and his quest for new NHL fans... get this club profitable.

You kind of feel bad for the actual fans that are there. But this is a business. Mind you, if they are relocated you can bet it will be to non-hockey market.

SeawaySensFan wrote:Mind you, if they are relocated you can bet it will be to non-hockey market.

No doubt. Bettman will move teams to KC and Vegas before he moves them to the GTA or anywhere in Canada. He's so hell bent on getting *new* NHL fans it's affecting profitability.

As someone who has lived in Phoenix...move them, no one will even notice

IMHO the 'second team' in Toronto/Southern Ontario will be the transplanted Coyotes.

An excellent opportunity to revive the old Hamilton Tigers, one of the NHL's original franchises (as the Quebec Bulldogs, founded in 1888, and becoming the Tigers in 1921).

Fascinating story to this team in its various incarnations, which demonstrates that the instability, and seeming contradiction of desirability, of NHL franchises is nothing new.

From Wikipedia:

Franchise history


The origins of the team go back to the old Quebec City Bulldogs team which started play in 1888 in the Amateur Hockey Association of Canada and different leagues thereafter (including the NHL in 1920). Their last season in Quebec (1919–20) was a dismal one as they finished last in the NHL with a horrible four wins and twenty losses in 24 games.

After the 1919–20 season, the NHL took back the Quebec Bulldogs franchise and sold the team to Percy Thompson of the Abso Pure Ice Company of Hamilton, Ontario. Percy Thompson was also the manager of the Barton Street Arena. The club was moved to Hamilton for the 1920–21 season, renamed the Hamilton Tigers.

This prevented the startup of a rival league at the time, which was trying to land a club in Hamilton. (see Eddie Livingstone)

Hamilton at the time (1920) was the fifth-largest population in Canada (Hamilton-114,200/ Toronto-521,900) and considered a vital market.

The move to Hamilton did not rejuvenate the team. Despite earning a shutout in their first game, a 5–0 win over the Montreal Canadiens on December 22, 1920, being the only team to ever do so, it was plain that the Tigers didn't have a team that could compete. As a result, the NHL ordered the other three teams to supply players to the Tigers. Despite receiving quality players from the other teams and the signing of Joe Malone four games into the season, Hamilton still finished with the worst record at 6 wins, 18 losses, and 0 ties in 24 games. Even with Malone managing to score 30 goals in only 20 games, they couldn't climb out of the cellar.

The next three seasons were just as dreadful as the first one as the Tigers finished last in each of those three seasons making a total of 5 straight (counting the one season as the Bulldogs) with last place finishes. During these dreadful years, the Tigers attempted a rebuilding phase to bring the team up to par. After the 1921–22 NHL season, they had hired Art Ross as their new coach and made many player changes, including trading superstar Malone to the Montreal Canadiens for Bert Corbeau and Edmond Bouchard. The fans were outraged at seeing Malone leave, but felt vindicated when Malone -- at the end of the line -- only scored one goal in twenty games in one season for Montreal.

Prior to the 1922–23 season, the NHL would hold it's governors meeting at the Royal Connaught Hotel on King Street, where visiting teams stayed as well.

After four years of futility, things started to come together in the 1923–24 NHL season with another new coach (Percy LeSueur) and the signing of four players from the Sudbury Wolves of the NOHA, Red Green, Shorty Green, Alex McKinnon, and Charlie Langlois.

This year saw the Tigers achieve a team high of nine wins in 24 games. It was the next season, though, that saw the results of the previous years' wheelings and dealings.

Players Revolt


With yet another new head coach (Jimmy Gardiner) the Hamilton Tigers roared off to an impressive 10–4–1 start in the 1924–25 NHL season. Only half way through the season, they had more wins than any other season in their NHL history. The team slumped somewhat in the second half of the season but still managed to finish first overall with a record of 19 wins, 10 losses, and 1 tie, just ahead of the Toronto St. Patricks.

It looked like the Hamilton Tigers were going to have a chance at winning the Stanley Cup for the first time since they won it as the Quebec Bulldogs over a decade prior in 1913.

But it was not to be. While the Montreal Canadiens and Toronto St. Patricks were playing their semi-finals series to see who had the right to play the Tigers for NHL Finals, the Tigers' players went to their general manager, Percy Thompson, and demanded $200 extra pay for the six extra games they played that season.

The NHL had increased the number of games played that year from 24 to 30, but the players didn't get more money for more games. The players' contracts stated that they were to receive the same amount of money no matter how many games were played. Despite what their contracts said, the players demanded the $200 anyway and they said that if they didn't get more money, they wouldn't play in the NHL Finals.

NHL President Frank Calder was not amused. He stated that if they refused to play, he would suspend them all. The players refused to play and true to his word, the finals were cancelled, the players were all fined $200 and suspended.

The league title was awarded to the Montreal Canadiens (who had beat the Toronto St. Patricks in the semi-finals). The Montreal Canadiens went on to play the Victoria Cougars for the Stanley Cup but lost.

That marked the last time that an NHL team had lost the Stanley Cup to a rival league.

Takeover by New York

Meanwhile, in the league meeting of April 17, 1925, a New York bootlegger named "Big Bill" Dwyer was granted an expansion franchise for New York and named it the New York Americans.

Although Dwyer wished to purchase the Hamilton players, for a little while it seemed that Hamilton might remain in the NHL as Abso-Pure talked about building a new arena. The arena was not built and Dwyer bought the rights to the Tigers' players from Thompson for $75,000, and gave the players raises, some as high as 200% of their previous salary.

The Hamilton franchise was officially revoked at the September 22 league meeting in the same year, and the matter of the players' suspensions and fines dropped with little additional comment.

The last active Tigers player was Billy Burch, who retired in 1933.

I voted for moving the team, my heart wants the team moved to Winnipeg or Quebec City, but my mind knows it will go to another American market as long as Gary "I love the US" Bettman is the commish.

davetherave wrote:IMHO the 'second team' in Toronto/Southern Ontario will be the transplanted Coyotes.

Not under Bettman's watch. We'll need a new Commissioner before that happens. Bettman's primary, and what seems to be only, directive is to get new NHL fans in non-hockey markets.

shabbs wrote:

davetherave wrote:IMHO the 'second team' in Toronto/Southern Ontario will be the transplanted Coyotes.

Not under Bettman's watch. We'll need a new Commissioner before that happens. Bettman's primary, and what seems to be only, directive is to get new NHL fans in non-hockey markets.

The NHL's Bill Daly and the NHLPA's Paul Kelly have already had meetings in Toronto on the subject and have come out in favour of the idea of a 2nd team there.

So not sure where you get the idea Bettman is against this...

davetherave wrote:

shabbs wrote:

davetherave wrote:IMHO the 'second team' in Toronto/Southern Ontario will be the transplanted Coyotes.

Not under Bettman's watch. We'll need a new Commissioner before that happens. Bettman's primary, and what seems to be only, directive is to get new NHL fans in non-hockey markets.

The NHL's Bill Daly and the NHLPA's Paul Kelly have already had meetings in Toronto on the subject and have come out in favour of the idea of a 2nd team there.

So not sure where you get the idea Bettman is against this...

The impression I got from Paul Kelly in an interview on the Fan 590 was that the NHLPA is more in favour of adding a team to the GTA and/or relocating struggling franchises because it would raise the cap.

Maybe the league executive/owners are reluctant to grow revenues for that very reason?

Vegas Baby! cool)

Bruckheimer is a massive hockey fan - and he's one of the world's most influential and powerful movie producers (and richest).

Seems like a match made in heaven. If he's asking and I'm the NHL, he could put it on the moon for all I care. It's yours.

The 2nd Toronto team will be made from scratch I think - not a team that moves.

SeawaySensFan wrote:
The impression I got from Paul Kelly in an interview on the Fan 590 was that the NHLPA is more in favour of adding a team to the GTA and/or relocating struggling franchises because it would raise the cap.

Maybe the league executive/owners are reluctant to grow revenues for that very reason?

Wow. If that's gonna happen the Sens could legitimately go out and buy Bouwmeester. The cap will never fall again.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

davetherave wrote:

shabbs wrote:

davetherave wrote:IMHO the 'second team' in Toronto/Southern Ontario will be the transplanted Coyotes.

Not under Bettman's watch. We'll need a new Commissioner before that happens. Bettman's primary, and what seems to be only, directive is to get new NHL fans in non-hockey markets.

The NHL's Bill Daly and the NHLPA's Paul Kelly have already had meetings in Toronto on the subject and have come out in favour of the idea of a 2nd team there.

So not sure where you get the idea Bettman is against this...

The impression I got from Paul Kelly in an interview on the Fan 590 was that the NHLPA is more in favour of adding a team to the GTA and/or relocating struggling franchises because it would raise the cap.

Maybe the league executive/owners are reluctant to grow revenues for that very reason?

I don't understand what you mean by that.

The owners are ALL about growing revenue.

That's why they own hockey teams.

It's fashionable to bash Bettman, and he's an easy target for the Mainstream Media Mutts, but the fact is that the NHL's in the best financial shape it has EVER been.

And this is not to defend GB. Just stating the facts.

Most people don't remember John Ziegler and Clarence Campbell.

Most people don't want to talk about how the players are finally getting salaries that are commensurate with the talent they have and the risks they take.

And when presented with the facts, such as outlined in a number of articles by prominent and respected financial journals, some people simply choose to ignore them.

Since Bettman took the job in 1993, replacing Gil Stein, the NHL's revenues have grown steadily, from $400 million when he was hired to over $2.2 billion (as of the 2007 season).

Phoenix has long been a problematic franchise from a financial perspective, even when it was the Winnipeg Jets. The NHL faced the choice of folding the Jets (because local investors could not meet the obligations) or moving them to Phoenix when investors from that area stepped up.

As Phoenix had a long history of successful minor league franchises, notably the WHL Roadrunners, the due diligence may have indicated the move was logical.

When a franchise goes bad, it's a long and complex process involving a labyrinth of legal issues.

As for speculation that Jerry Bruckheimer might want to take this over, I did offer the hypothesis on these boards some time ago. However, Bruckheimer has since recused himself from the discussion, and I expect given his business acumen, is waiting for an opportunity with less baggage.

This one looks tailor made for Balsillie or the Vaughn Group of investors in the GTA.

I think Phoenix will drup the puck in Glendale for this season and this season only; after that, their 'new' destination could be anywhere, although with Bettman at the helm, it's not likely to be in Canada.

Bettman must stop trying to live up to the management skills of his more astute half-brother, Jeffrey Pollack, the current commissioner of the World Series of Poker. Now that fella knows to run a league, of sorts.

davetherave wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

davetherave wrote:

shabbs wrote:

davetherave wrote:IMHO the 'second team' in Toronto/Southern Ontario will be the transplanted Coyotes.

Not under Bettman's watch. We'll need a new Commissioner before that happens. Bettman's primary, and what seems to be only, directive is to get new NHL fans in non-hockey markets.

The NHL's Bill Daly and the NHLPA's Paul Kelly have already had meetings in Toronto on the subject and have come out in favour of the idea of a 2nd team there.

So not sure where you get the idea Bettman is against this...

The impression I got from Paul Kelly in an interview on the Fan 590 was that the NHLPA is more in favour of adding a team to the GTA and/or relocating struggling franchises because it would raise the cap.

Maybe the league executive/owners are reluctant to grow revenues for that very reason?

I don't understand what you mean by that.

The owners are ALL about growing revenue.

That's why they own hockey teams.

What I mean is having a few weak sisters keeps league revenue down. The lower the revenue, the lower the cap.

I was just thinking if the cap/salaries are lower the margins are better. But what do I know?