Hartsburg to split up top line

PKC wrote:Neil was traded for anything we could get for him. As was McAmmond.

You would be surprised what Neil could bring. A lot of teams would be trying to acquire him - and for a good player too. Barker for Neil could've happened, not sure why it didn't actually. I guess Murray wanted to see how the Mez thing shook out.

Neil, Fisher, Vermette, Kelly, Foligno, and Winchester are players that almost every team wants.

Acrobat wrote:

cash wrote:

Acrobat wrote:Why are so many against splitting the Speatley combo?

We saw how well Heater did at the WC with Nash - we could give him Fish instead.

Without Heater, Spezza would still have Alfie, but both are playmakers before finishers, (more so Spezza than Alfie though), so Spezza would have to commit to using his shot more - which is lethal.

Add in Vermette, and one of the kids to round out the lines, and all should work, no?

I think a Vermette - Spezza - Alfredsson would be a great line. They would be the skill line, followed by the power line of Foligno/Winchester - Fisher - Heatley

And both would be scary to play against...
Isn't that what we want?

I think splitting up Heatley and Spezza could vastly improve this team. The Worlds were a good example of how Heatley can live without Spezz. He was given the chance to handle the puck more and set up plays. But he still was not the primary puck handler on his line. Getzlaf did that and he set up heatley very nicely fort e whole tourney. I think Heatley needs to have a playmaker on his line. So how about making Heatley-Fisher-Alfie into a line and then signing Glen Murray to be Spezza's new Heatley. Then on the second line we have Vermette-Spezza-Murray. Spez and Vermy make up for Murray's speed issues and Murray becomes the triger man on that line. It could work.

If Murray can play 75 games and score 70 points, then I love it, but those are HUGE ifs...

cash wrote:If Murray can play 75 games and score 70 points, then I love it, but those are HUGE ifs...

Yup that is one MAMMOTH if. I think he could get the points but playing the actual games will be the trick .

Tukker wrote:

wprager wrote:
He did say "in no specific order". But I'm with you -- I just don't see Kelly and Donovan as anything but 3rd liners. Kelly did fill in on the top line, but that's only because Heatley, Fisher and Vermette were all out, wasn't it?

spezza, fisher, and vermette were out.

That's most definitely what I meant. :oops:

AlfieforPM wrote:
I think splitting up Heatley and Spezza could vastly improve this team. The Worlds were a good example of how Heatley can live without Spezz. He was given the chance to handle the puck more and set up plays. But he still was not the primary puck handler on his line. Getzlaf did that and he set up heatley very nicely fort e whole tourney. I think Heatley needs to have a playmaker on his line. So how about making Heatley-Fisher-Alfie into a line and then signing Glen Murray to be Spezza's new Heatley. Then on the second line we have Vermette-Spezza-Murray. Spez and Vermy make up for Murray's speed issues and Murray becomes the triger man on that line. It could work.

Not sure about "vastly". Don't forget that International Ice Hockey is not the NHL (not even the New NHL). There's a lot less room for Heater to "hide" so you need a very accurate passer. Spezza is such a passer, as is Alfie. Fisher and Vermette? I have some doubts.

I would most definitely want to try Fisher out as a winger on the first line, though. That article suggests that Hartsburg would be moving centres to wing, so we'll have to wait and see.

Vermette has a bit more scoring touch than Fisher (at least his scoring percentage supports that) and that would help to even-out the scoring. I think Fisher would do better on the top line. No offense to his past linemates, but Spezza/Heatley is tops in the league. Fisher would create room for those two with his styl eof play, and since he's got one of the best wrist shots in the league I think it may even help Heatley (D/G couldn't cheat as much toward his side when Fisher could shoot as well as pass -- that was a bit of a problem with Spezza, I think).

Having Vermette take more face offs (and Fisher fewer) will also help, and second-line ice time with the likes of Alfredsson would mean Vermette gets 25-30. Having Foligno or Winchester on Alfie's line also means less banging for the Captain.

On paper, I just don't see any downside to any of those moves.

I was reading this article again last night whilst having a smoke (yes, I'm really obsessed with the Sens and hockey) and I caught something I didn't catch the first time:

The Senators need more scoring from the second and third lines and they
are top-heavy with defensive centres, actually, all kinds of centres.
New coach Craig Hartsburg has talked all summer about character,
accountability and a team-first attitude. He may test individuals'
commitment right off the bat by breaking up the first line and playing
centres at wing.

http://senators.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=NewsPage&articleid=381066

Anyone else think that's directly about Mike Fisher? We all know Vermette can play both, I think this is Mike Fisher or Jason Spezza.

We all might get our wish of a Heatley - Spezza - Fisher line afterall!

504Heater wrote:I was reading this article again last night whilst having a smoke (yes, I'm really obsessed with the Sens and hockey) and I caught something I didn't catch the first time:

The Senators need more scoring from the second and third lines and they
are top-heavy with defensive centres, actually, all kinds of centres.
New coach Craig Hartsburg has talked all summer about character,
accountability and a team-first attitude. He may test individuals'
commitment right off the bat by breaking up the first line and playing
centres at wing.

http://senators.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=NewsPage&articleid=381066

Anyone else think that's directly about Mike Fisher? We all know Vermette can play both, I think this is Mike Fisher or Jason Spezza.

We all might get our wish of a Heatley - Spezza - Fisher line afterall!

Honestly, a line of Heatley, Spezza and Fisher makes me drool; and I think still strikes fear in ANY team's defence...

i wouldn't be surprised to see Hartsburg try that. Besides, after ALL the ridiculous changes Paddock tried, what's the worst that can happen??

Cronenbergfan wrote:
Honestly, a line of Heatley, Spezza and Fisher makes me drool; and I think still strikes fear in ANY team's defence...

i wouldn't be surprised to see Hartsburg try that. Besides, after ALL the ridiculous changes Paddock tried, what's the worst that can happen??

I think he will for sure now. I think it was possible before, now it's almost certain.

It's the best combo in hockey IMO. Power, power and mass skill.

I agree Heater. I think the remark about Centers playing as Wing may have been directed squarely at Fisher. He actually doesn't have a lot of choice but to do that. We have Spezza, Fisher, Vermette, Kelly, McAmmond, Bass (I know he may not be a lock for the team) and I'm sure I'm forgetting someone.

And that line followed up by Vermette and Alfredsson (a duo I have always wanted to see!) would probably shore-up our secondary scoring "issues"

I still wish we could have found a way to have a Fisher Alfie line but the Fisher Spezza Heater line sounds sweet as well.

I like these lines:

Heatley-Spezza-Vermette
Alfie-Fisher-Winchester
Ruttu-Kelly-Foligno
Schubert-Bass-Neil

That's where I don't see McCammond and DOnovan as anything but a plug.

I don't think Vermette can play with those two, but it would be great if it could work...The problem is that Vermette does things that the other team and his own teammates don't expect. He needs someone like Stillman or Alfredsson who can read the play and anticipate his random movements. That would've been a great line imo...too bad.

cash wrote:And that line followed up by Vermette and Alfredsson (a duo I have always wanted to see!) would probably shore-up our secondary scoring "issues"

Absolutely! Vermette looked solid in the center position at the end of last season. I think that is where he will break out, if he ever does. Throw Fisher and Alfie on his wings and that's a solid 2nd line. The good thing though, is that with the additions of Winchester and Shannon - whether they find themselves in Bingo or not - we have some good options and players to experiment with during training camp and the season.

We have tried to put Mike Fisher on a wing over the last few years. Murray did this when he first came to Ottawa and Fisher was lost on the wing. He has all the makeup to be a very big power forward winger but can't ever get in th grove. I would like to see Spezza and Heatley split up. I would not mind Vermette centering Heatley and Alfie. I still think we need another offenzive forward on the second line to complete this puzzle. I would have loved big bertuzzi playing here at just over two million.
Heatley- Vermette- Alfie
Bertuzzi- Spezza- Foligno
Ruttu-fisher-bass
Schubert-kelly-neil

Just remembering the old days when you had the problem of trying to figure out where to play a Havlat on the third line.

paddygill wrote:We have tried to put Mike Fisher on a wing over the last few years. Murray did this when he first came to Ottawa and Fisher was lost on the wing. He has all the makeup to be a very big power forward winger but can't ever get in th grove. I would like to see Spezza and Heatley split up. I would not mind Vermette centering Heatley and Alfie. I still think we need another offenzive forward on the second line to complete this puzzle. I would have loved big bertuzzi playing here at just over two million.
Heatley- Vermette- Alfie
Bertuzzi- Spezza- Foligno
Ruttu-fisher-bass
Schubert-kelly-neil

Just remembering the old days when you had the problem of trying to figure out where to play a Havlat on the third line.

Yeah, and Spezza was centering him on the third line. Good Lord those were the days. I wish we could have our lines set up like this:

Heatley-Spezza-[Glen Murray]
Alfredsson-Vermette-Zubov
Foligno-Fisher-Winchester
Ruutu-Kelly-Bass

Strength down the middle, with lots of great potential lines.