The Vinnie Feud Between The Bolts and Habs Goes Public

shabbs wrote:I'm thinking TBay should have made that deal...

Agreed. TBay should have definitely made that deal...a win-win.

Lawton will have a very tough time rebuilding his D...Gorges and Subban would have been a big help.

Higgins with Stamkos, Plekanec teamed with Malone/St Louis? That could have been strong.

Lecavalier in Montreal...well, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

Who knows, it may still happen now that it's all out in the open. It's certainly in both team's interests to pursue it...

shabbs wrote:Who knows, it may still happen now that it's all out in the open. It's certainly in both team's interests to pursue it...

No question about that...especially now that it's all out in the open.

And Lecavalier has already said publicly he would be honoured to play in Montreal.

HowieMorenz wrote:hmmm, so the big question is:

Would you trade
plek, higgy, pk and georges
for
Lecavalier
?

It's easier to answer now after seeing how they did, but as of today, I would say 'yes' to this trade. pk is prolly the best player out of the deal ....

I wouldn't do this. Plekanec is not a great player, I'd say Higgins is the best here, with alot of potential in PK. I think to get Lecavalier out of Tampa, Markov is absolutely involved.

Markov, Higgins, PK is a start.

Think about what LA could offer them.... Hickey or Teubert, or both, plus some of their offensive talent like Moller or Frolov- who are far more talented than Plekanec and Higgins put together.

Don't get me wrong- I despise the Habs, so maybe I'm undervaluing their players, but Plekanec is NOT that good. We're talking about a 6'4, stanley cup winner, ELITE centreman in this league.

I wonder if: 1) this trade could still happen and fences be mended? and/or
2) What if this Gainey blame-game crap is just that, CRAP! What if this is just posturing, like Gainey and Lawton pretend to be pissed and then a month or so down the road, a breaking trade alert?!

Who knows with these guys...

Either way, If there EVER was a more pinnacle moment to pull the trigger on that trade, it should have been at the Deadline IMHO. Getting Vinny to go there now with the team up for sale which could mean a whole new set of personnel (GM, coach, President, et al) and a slew of FA's to deal with, this team is, whether they wish to admit it or not, in FULL BLOWN rebuild, and convincing Vinny to go there could be more difficult with ALL this now in the open. Would you want to go somewhere where you MAY win in 3-5 years, or would you rather take a chance and try to win with your current team or perhaps another team that may have interest in you, other than Les Habitants?

Cronie wrote:I wonder if: 1) this trade could still happen and fences be mended? and/or
2) What if this Gainey blame-game crap is just that, CRAP! What if this is just posturing, like Gainey and Lawton pretend to be pissed and then a month or so down the road, a breaking trade alert?!

Who knows with these guys...

Either way, If there EVER was a more pinnacle moment to pull the trigger on that trade, it should have been at the Deadline IMHO. Getting Vinny to go there now with the team up for sale which could mean a whole new set of personnel (GM, coach, President, et al) and a slew of FA's to deal with, this team is, whether they wish to admit it or not, in FULL BLOWN rebuild, and convincing Vinny to go there could be more difficult with ALL this now in the open. Would you want to go somewhere where you MAY win in 3-5 years, or would you rather take a chance and try to win with your current team or perhaps another team that may have interest in you, other than Les Habitants?

Habs President Pierre Boivin has declared the Canadiens are looking to build the team going forward around a French Canadian--his word was 'Quebecois'--star.

Even Jean Charest has stepped in and promised the Quebec Government's financial support.

If a consortium of investors from Quebec buys the Habs, it is absolutely logical to expect Lecavalier will be pursued and acquired.

Touché Dave.

I must admit, The Habs and Vinny are like a dog with a bone.

Cronie wrote:Touché Dave.

I must admit, The Habs and Vinny are like a dog with a bone.

Add to this that Serge Savard, not only a Habs legend but a former Habs GM, is a very successful entrepreneur who has also come out and stated his interest which includes the formation of a buyer group.

Not only from a marketing perspective, but from the point of view of re-establishing a team culture that leverages the Habs' 'Way'--as the owner/management teams have done in Detroit and Chicago BTW...the 'retour a la base' makes sense.

Gainey may be burning bridges, or he may be preparing his exit...or it may be a 'scorched earth' strategy to bring the parties back to the table.

By coming out in this way, Gainey puts heat on Lawton.

All fun to watch for those of us who enjoy seeing the Machiavellian processes of the hockey business.

cool)

ah yes, and I am one of them...

So, Dave, speaking of Machiavelli, what's your take:
Is it better to be feared than loved?

Cronie wrote:ah yes, and I am one of them...

So, Dave, speaking of Machiavelli, what's your take:
Is it better to be feared than loved?

Cronie, a little of both keeps things spicy LOL

Very true Dave.

The Globe & Mail's best hockey writer, Eric Duhatschek, adds his toonie's worth:

Whither Les Glorieux?

ERIC DUHATSCHEK, Globe and Mail Columnist

April 24, 2009 at 12:39 PM EDT

Of the three teams swept out of the NHL playoffs in the opening round, no one's future is more puzzling or perplexing than that of the Montreal Canadiens, who completed a year-over-year first-to-eight freefall in the regular-season standings and then exited the post-season so meekly that you'd think a complete remake is the only solution.

And if – after determining that is the proper course of action - and if the natural place to begin is with the Tampa Bay Lightning and another pitch for Vincent Lecavalier, then what in the name of Sam Pollock what was general manager Bob Gainey doing, publicly eviscerating his Lightning counterpart, Brian Lawton, during his season in review.

Gainey charged that Lawton's inability to keep their January trade talks over Lecavalier quiet unsettled his own team - and when the deal fell through, it left him with a handful of players (Tomas Plekanec, Chris Higgins and Josh Gorges) unsure of their futures in Montreal; or their worth to the organization.

Even if it were true, Gainey had already chided Lawton over this matter once before this season. What was the point of revisiting the subject again Thursday, if he had even the slightest interest in pursuing Lecavalier in what would be the biggest blockbuster of his career - and would be a brilliant way of instantly putting the disappointment of the 100th anniversary debacle behind them?

Think about Lecavalier's reception in Montreal at the January all-star game, when all was still sweetness and light in the Canadiens camp? Nothing would make their disenchanted fan base look forward to next year more than bringing in a hometown player, who had a decent year, despite with a bad wrist, who has matinee idol looks, is only 29 years old and two years ago, won the Rocket Richard trophy as the league's scoring leader.

On that level, Gainey's rant made no sense - and you'd have to think that Lawton's response (flatly denying the charges and inviting his peers in the NHL to come to his defence) will compromise any attempts to resurrect the talks. Even if Tampa puts Lecavalier in play as trade bait prior to July 1 because of the enormity of a contract that kicks in then - 11 years, $85-million (all currency U.S.), with a no-trade clause - Montreal will surely be the last team Lawton would consider doing business with.

This has all the makings of a Brian Burke-Kevin Lowe feud - and that one became so public and so bad for business, that commissioner Gary Bettman eventually stepped in, told them to cool it and stop acting like kids.

On the plus side for Montreal, they have just $32-million committed to contracts for next season, thanks to the 10 unrestricted free agents who finished the year on their roster. Assuming the salary cap stays flat - Bettman's most recent estimate was that it'll fall within a million or two of this year's $56.7-million limit – that suggests Gainey will have money to spend, if he wants to dip his toes into the market.

In a tightening economy, with dollars to spend, Gainey's alternatives may not be solely restricted to free agency either. Many teams - led by the Philadelphia Flyers and the Calgary Flames - will likely make quality signed players available, because they have backed themselves into a financial corner. Consider the Flyers' plight, for example. When Daniel Briere returned from a season-long injury and they had to fit his $6.5-million salary-cap charge onto the payroll, they did so by dumping two roster players on waivers (Glen Metropolit and Ossi Vaanenan). Ultimately, the Flyers will need to find the dollars to sign one or both of their unrestricted free agents in goal (Martin BIron or Antero Nittymaki) and the easiest way to create the flexibility would be to move Briere.

Montreal, remember, bid on Briere's services two summers ago and was rebuffed by a Flyers' offer that was marginally lower. Do the Canadiens hold a grudge? The advantage of bringing in Briere now is that his contract was front-loaded, meaning the first two years, one at $10-million, the next at $8-million, have already clicked off the deal. So to bring in Briere now, you get six years left at a salary-cap number that doesn't change, but only has $34-million left in real dollars – not bad if you think Briere can regain his form as a point-per-game player; and if he doesn't mind the pressure cooker of playing in Montreal, something that is becoming an increasingly difficult sell job for Gainey.

Presumably, the player acquisition cost for Briere, or any other player on the outs with his team for salary reasons, would be negligible - Philadelphia would be happy just to get out from under the contract load. Some teams might even sweeten the deal with a prospect or a draft choice or take a lesser bad contract of your own to make the deal happen.

Two other teams - the St. Louis Blues and the Columbus Blue Jackets – also shared Montreal's first-round fate; they were swept out of the playoffs by the Vancouver Canucks and Detroit Red Wings respectively.

However, the disappointment of that result will be mitigated in St. Louis because the Blues weren't supposed to make the playoffs at all, and in Columbus because the Blue Jackets made it for the first time in franchise history.

The Blues have a nice nucleus of young players who were a little overwhelmed by their first playoff appearance - and Chris Mason couldn't match Roberto Luongo save-for-save. Columbus was schooled by the defending Stanley Cup champion Detroit Red Wings, who look like a lethal post-season force, after playing just so-so hockey for the final month of the season.

The Blue Jackets' Steve Mason had a splashy NHL debut, which should result in a Calder Trophy as the rookie of the year and he may even get some consideration for the Vezina Trophy as the top goaltender.

He didn't look great in the playoffs – possibly as a result of fatigue – and the one caveat about Mason is that for goaltenders, the second year tends to be harder than the first because the expectation level is cranked up.

Remember, it was only a year ago that the same accolades going Mason's way now were being directed towards Montreal's Carey Price. Price's season ended with that infamous Roy-like gesture, responding to the jeering that he was getting from a disappointed capacity crowd at the Bell Centre.

It may be that Gainey needed to protect him better – and give Jaroslav Halak a start, with the possibility of a for-the-ages comeback not logically in the cards.

The bottom line is that both the Blues and Blue Jackets can take solace from the fact that they are trending upwards. Each has a former No. 1 overall draft pick in the organization - Erik Johnson in St. Louis and Rick Nash in Columbus – to build around, along with an emerging supporting cast.

The same cannot be said for Montreal, where their best young player is ... who exactly? Plekanec? One of the Kostisyns? It's probably Price actually – if his confidence can ever be rebuilt, a process that may not happen overnight.

Either way, it is not exactly a Murderer's Row line-up that sends chills up the spines of opponents – and suggests that the aberration wasn't necessarily this year's mediocre flop, but last year's unexpected rise to top spot in the conference.

Figure a long and challenging summer for Gainey, trying to sort out this mess, assuming he gets the chance to do so from owner George Gillett. And the biggest challenge of all, if he decides to pursue Lecavalier, will be mending fences with that “disgraceful” Lightning organization.

Holy Diddle, is he saying that TB only wanted Plekanic, Higgins and Georges for one of the best centers in the game? :****:

Diddle them reading about it and feeling bad, they could read about it in TB after I've driven them there and traded them.

As for Gainey - stupid timing, stupid thing to say. Stupid.

Now do the deal and all will be well.

504Heater wrote:Holy Diddle, is he saying that TB only wanted Plekanic, Higgins and Georges for one of the best centers in the game? :****:

Diddle them reading about it and feeling bad, they could read about it in TB after I've driven them there and traded them.

As for Gainey - stupid timing, stupid thing to say. Stupid.

Now do the deal and all will be well.

Lawton would hang up as soon as he realized Gainey was calling, he really diddled himself out of Lecavalier now, looks good on him as the team falls to hell around him.

So, the Habs fire Gainey and get on the diddling horn to TB!!!! Before it's too late (which it HAS to be, what a dumb deal!!!!!).

shabbs wrote:Who knows, it may still happen now that it's all out in the open. It's certainly in both team's interests to pursue it...

Absolutely, even plek's worth is way less now than then ...

SensFan71 wrote:

504Heater wrote:Holy Diddle, is he saying that TB only wanted Plekanic, Higgins and Georges for one of the best centers in the game? :****:

Diddle them reading about it and feeling bad, they could read about it in TB after I've driven them there and traded them.

As for Gainey - stupid timing, stupid thing to say. Stupid.

Now do the deal and all will be well.

Lawton would hang up as soon as he realized Gainey was calling, he really diddled himself out of Lecavalier now, looks good on him as the team falls to hell around him.

Subban, Gorges, Higgins and Plekanec were the players mentioned. There are no further details about whether there were other considerations.

Cronie wrote:ah yes, and I am one of them...

So, Dave, speaking of Machiavelli, what's your take:
Is it better to be feared than loved?

Just to throw out a non-sequitor on Friday; I have a cat by that name