Tim Murray on Team 1200

rooneypoo wrote:

jamvan wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:Spezza with Neil and Ruutu eh.... If he doesnt show some pop on that line in a physical or hard working sense, the other team is gonna eat him alive. Good luck producing there big guy.

Wow! Talk about sailing a guy down crap river. What is he going to do with those two guys?

Bang, crash, and agitate.

*Snicker*

Seriously, tho', what a waste. Spezza is a top-6 player on any team. If you want to punish him to send a message -- which I totally get -- then limit his ice time and take him off the top PP unit, etc., but at least put him with guys who are remotely offensively oriented. Say, any two of Zubov, Winchester, Foligno, and Vermette. This is over the top and counter-productive to the team's single most urgent need, which is to produce more goals.

That line won't last the 1st two periods.

Agreed. I think Harts will keep the big 3 apart for at least a game, but I anticipate alot of other tinkering. Also, the point about pairing Spezza with offensive type players is well taken. It's setting Spezza up to fail (and become that much more of a lightning rod for criticism) pairing him with guys who cannot take advantage of his playmaking skill.

I'd also say that Jarkko Ruutu is underrated offensively. He's just so damn good at the agitator role, that we hardly see it.

Neely4Life wrote:

shabbs wrote:Isn't this is the kind of stuff that falls on Alfie's shoulders though...

What is he honestly supposed to do. Force people to like each other? Force people to sign by a camp fire?

If players dont care, they dont care.

Think Messier would let this go on?

shabbs wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

shabbs wrote:Isn't this is the kind of stuff that falls on Alfie's shoulders though...

What is he honestly supposed to do. Force people to like each other? Force people to sign by a camp fire?

If players dont care, they dont care.

Think Messier would let this go on?

Alfi is no Messier. Alfi is a good leader, I would hardly call him great though. He shares some blame for sure, Ill even say a lot, but to change a person or a team mate isnt reasonable. People still expect Spezza to be forced to do things, and forced to want to try. The guy makes 7 million dollars a year, has the biggest contract in team history, its on him, not Alfi, not Heatley, not the ccoach.

Neely4Life wrote:I think he said 7 or 8 weeks is too long. For the most part people know the 8 game roadie is going to be the deciding factor this year.

The wierdest/most disturbing part of that interview was Murray talking about the salaries and contracts of certain players and how they have no motivation anymore. Harstberg was saying similar things about his big money guys as well. I dont know if I ever remember a coach and managment calling out the contracts and money certain guys make, EVER. I cant say 100% for certain they are talking about Spezza because he could very well be Heatley as well, but I'll take my chances with option 1.

Disturbing to say the least.

Let's see, the players who have cooled off since getting their big contracts (in order of contract size):

Heatley
Spezza
Redden
Fisher
Gerber
Vermette
Kelly

You could throw a few more players on that pile, but those are the most glaring ones. Other than his contract size, why would you single out one player?

Neely4Life wrote:

shabbs wrote:Isn't this is the kind of stuff that falls on Alfie's shoulders though...

What is he honestly supposed to do. Force people to like each other? Force people to sign by a camp fire?

If players dont care, they dont care.

The point is, why does it take an outside to notice this? And if Alfie had noticed it, then what is he doing about it (I refuse to think that he's doing nothing). I still think that making Heatley wear the 'A' was a big mistake. I didn't like it at the time and nothing has happened to change my opinion. You've got Phillips and Fisher as the home-grown choices, and Smith as the outsider. Heatley has neither the experience or leadership that Smith has, nor the years of service of Phillips. It was the wrong choice.

dennycrane wrote:

shabbs wrote:Isn't this is the kind of stuff that falls on Alfie's shoulders though...

Yes it does. Leadership has always been an issue on this team, at least within the dressing room. They have always needed that smack-you-in-the-mouth leader. Alfie? Heatley? Fisher? Phillips? No chance.

Time to turn Jason Smith loose on the room. No change in lettering, but people like Spezza and Kelly need a slap in the face.

I have to disagree about Phillips. What he said at the rookie camp forever sealed the deal for me. *This* is the guy who should have gotten the 'A'.

What did he say at the rookie camp Wprager?

I actually like Spezza with the two pests. I don't think it will last (or at least I hope not) but this may prove to be a tonic for him.

Do any of you guys (Neely excluded) really think that Spezza doesn't care, that he would rather be held without a shot than score a goal and set up a couple of others? I've seen him trying hard (sometimes too hard) and getting nothing, zilch to show for it. He's not mature enough to understand that you try hard regardless of the outcome; he's not experienced enough to know that it will eventually come. But to say he doesn't care is just stupid (sorry).

Ruutu and Neil can draw a little attention to themselves and leave Spezza with a little room. Instead of looking for a pass he should look for the shot, and Ruutu can stand in the crease bothering the goalie and looking for rebounds. A fwe ugly looking goals will be real nice for a change.

P.S. And if Spezza is still standing around waiting then Neil can smoke him.

Well, you make some great points Wprager (as always) and in terms of seeing Spezza as apathetic, or that he doesn't care, I suppose one could argue that when he's skating listlessly and aimlessly WAITING for something to happen, that could be construed as not caring. However, if anything, the latest set of games have shown me that Spezza is streaky, much like a lot of players, so an element of patience should be taken into consideration.
Although, judging by the cries of Sens fans all over the internet and airwaves, I'd say patience has run thin...

Cronenbergfan wrote:What did he say at the rookie camp Wprager?

He said he didn't want the kids to be intimidated and think "Look at all those great veteran defensemen; we've got no chance her because we'd have to take away one of their jobs to get our ice time". Phillips told them "We *want you* to try and take our jobs".

Wait, I should be able to find it. It's best hearing it from the Big Rig himself:
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Columnists/Brennan/2008/06/27/6005066-sun.html

The following is my favorite quote, but there are other good ones there:

"You defenceman, don't look at the roster and say,
'Well, they've already got their six or seven guys that will be here,
and Binghamton already has their six or seven guys. I don't have to
work that hard because I'm not going to make it anyway ...' F--- that.
I want you to come in here and try to take my job."

Wow. Gives me goosebumps reading that again. That, gentlemen (and lady) is a leader. All I've heard from Heatley is Bull Durham on Skates.

Now, all that said, Phillips is not performing up to his standard, but he should have gotten the 'A'.

Cronenbergfan wrote:Well, you make some great points Wprager (as always) and in terms of seeing Spezza as apathetic, or that he doesn't care, I suppose one could argue that when he's skating listlessly and aimlessly WAITING for something to happen, that could be construed as not caring. However, if anything, the latest set of games have shown me that Spezza is streaky, much like a lot of players, so an element of patience should be taken into consideration.
Although, judging by the cries of Sens fans all over the internet and airwaves, I'd say patience has run thin...

Remember Hicks -- I mean Hudson -- in Aliens. Gung-ho and brash as they come at the start. Yet somewhere in the middle he was crying "Game over, man". Maybe Spezza stopping skating and just staring is his way of crying "Game over".

Why can't Phillips get one now? (putting performance aside for a second)

There was a time (two years ago?) when the defacto leaders of the team (Alfie, Spezza, Heatley, Redden, Phillips, Fisher) would regularly have a pow-wow at Fratelli's in Kanata. Any time the team looked like it was heading in the wrong direction, they'd be there for lunch, or for hours more. Problem would get solved.

Of the five that are left, I don't believe any have been seen there together, nor have they been (to my knowledge) meeting (not just going for a drink) anywhere else in a similar way.

Has the level of respect for each other changed?

wprager wrote:

Cronenbergfan wrote:Well, you make some great points Wprager (as always) and in terms of seeing Spezza as apathetic, or that he doesn't care, I suppose one could argue that when he's skating listlessly and aimlessly WAITING for something to happen, that could be construed as not caring. However, if anything, the latest set of games have shown me that Spezza is streaky, much like a lot of players, so an element of patience should be taken into consideration.
Although, judging by the cries of Sens fans all over the internet and airwaves, I'd say patience has run thin...

Remember Hicks -- I mean Hudson -- in Aliens. Gung-ho and brash as they come at the start. Yet somewhere in the middle he was crying "Game over, man". Maybe Spezza stopping skating and just staring is his way of crying "Game over".

haha! Bill Paxton! I use that quote a LOT!!

I see your point man, but still, my personal opinion, as my father always taught me: until the final bell rings or whistle blows, you NEVER give up or stop...PERIOD.

Cronenbergfan wrote:
haha! Bill Paxton! I use that quote a LOT!!

I see your point man, but still, my personal opinion, as my father always taught me: until the final bell rings or whistle blows, you NEVER give up or stop...PERIOD.

Of course, we *all* know that. Problem is we don't have the talent to do it out there.