You want the Sens to make the playoffs?

Best is yet to come?
Don't forget Hedman on that list

Neely4Life wrote:
Murray has drafted well everywhere he has gone and he has stocked up on Dmen prospects. Zubov looks alright but he isnt a sure fire top 6 guy, neither is anyone who hasnt played in the NHL.

There is so much work that has to be done on this Sens team its depressing. Murray has gotten it off to a good start but it's no where near complete. He found a gem in Auld though.

I don't see it. What do we have to do? We need a puck mover - actually 2 probably, but let's start with one. We need to get one big puck mover, sign him to a contract (this can also be done next summer), then begin looking for a real sniper to play with Fisher.

This all comes down to making some deals, continuing to draft well - and perhaps finding a hidden gem who can work for us. It's why Murray's a GM and we aren't.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Give me some of the highlites then of the work that lies ahead for this Sens team Neely.

They need to develope some young that can come in here and produce up front, right now there is no one in the system. Maybe O'Brien and to a lesser extent Zubov and Smith can come in and produce, but to say they are top 6 forward remains to be seen.

They need to re-evaluate the core. Is this really the core the team wants? Can the Sens win with this core? For over a year now the answer is a clear cut no. So, then what do you do with that core, who stays, who goes? I dont have the answer but thats a question that will need to be answered.

Do they want to stock pile draft pics or try and turn it around? Do they go for the rebuild with a minor blow up? Or do they just nuke the current team? Then who do you draft? My guess is that you draft some tallent up front but if the team actually gets a shot at Hedman, its a no brainer. IF we actually do have all this young D, do you start to sign some resposnsible vets up front to support a young D core so they dont lose condifence and ruin what could possible be one of the best young D groups in the league.

Free agent signings. Who are the right guys to bring in next year and going forward? Who will be a positive influence on the younger guys and can help the team win. Murray already struck oil with Auld, can he do it again?

There are more things than that, but def a lot of work to be done.

Fair enough Neely, that's not too bad an assessment. I wouldn't trade any of the Big 3 personally, but I would hold faith that Murray makes a move for a real player for the blueline. He should have this summer, I don't know what he was thinking.

504Heater wrote:Fair enough Neely, that's not too bad an assessment. I wouldn't trade any of the Big 3 personally, but I would hold faith that Murray makes a move for a real player for the blueline. He should have this summer, I don't know what he was thinking.

Ok, you keep the big 3 and then there is still tons of work. To have any shot of winning you need 15 mil spent on your blueline, minimum. So between the big 3 and the D, thats 35 million with 9 players signed. Now, what about the goalies? If Auld keep this up after next year, its 3 mil minimum for the guy and you are not going to give up a true number 1 for 3 mil.

Thats 38 million spent on 10 guys, 11-13 to go. Now, what kind of top 6 forwards are you going to get for, 2-3 mil, the kind we have now.

How do you prepare for a weak Canadian dollar and a losing team? Will the fans still come out to support the team if we are losing? Then where is the money coming from? What do you do if the cap goes down to below 50 mil (which it probabaly will with the economy and a week canadian dollar, not next year, but within the next few years it will be hovering around the 50 mil mark IMO.)

Can Murray work it all out, maybe. It still leaves big questions and the Sens could be in a tough financal spot if things dont work out.

I didnt even include the 4.2 mil Fishers makes, thats 42 mil on 11 players with basically no secondary scoring, and no 3rd and 4th liners, or a backup.

Thats just more proof why J.Bo makes NO sense ^

If we get J Bo, Spezza is basically as good as gone if he resigns.

Which actually makes a lot of sense Imo.
I really believe Spezza is going to be a better overall player than Thornton, one day; so don't get me wrong, but: There is no denying that we would be a substantially better team with Bouwmeester on the backend and whatever Spezza would net us (which I assume would be a lot...)
The cool thing about it is that we could actually contend this season with both of them, while staying under the cap; then trade Spezza at the draft when his value is at its periodic peak.

I still dont think this team makes the playoffs with J Bo honestly, but that remains to be seen, maybe he just turns the Sens right around who knows.

If that did happen though, it would be clear what player made the team better, then hopefully Spezza starts to light it up and he gets dealt at the draft.

If it came to a choice of a 7 million dollar D man like J Bo or Spezza, its a no brainer.

Its a no brainer simply because of our salary structure; however, Imo, if it were based purely on potential and skill: Spezza is the choice to make. He will be a more valuable player - a more rare player - for the next 10 years than J.Bo...
I really wouldn't want to trade him, but NMCs to the other 3 big money forwards in Ottawa have pretty much made him the only viable option.

(Also, I believe Heatley is a far more rounded, non-one-dimensional player when he isn't stuck with Spezza.)

504Heater wrote:You want the Sens to make the playoffs?

No, because, not trying to sound pessimistic, it's highly unlikely we win the SC this year, and a playoff appearance only pushes our draft pick lower with no gain.

But, two high draft picks, and some roster changes, we are a better team next year.

cash wrote:Its a no brainer simply because of our salary structure; however, Imo, if it were based purely on potential and skill: Spezza is the choice to make. He will be a more valuable player - a more rare player - for the next 10 years than J.Bo...
I really wouldn't want to trade him, but NMCs to the other 3 big money forwards in Ottawa have pretty much made him the only viable option.

(Also, I believe Heatley is a far more rounded, non-one-dimensional player when he isn't stuck with Spezza.)

We can afford both Spezza and Bouwmeester. What it comes down to is how you want your team built.
We currently have:
First Line - A great scoring line but very expensive
NO Second line - If we assume Fisher isn't moved then we need two wingers
Third Line - Foligno - Kelly - Ruttu - Great Third Line and very affordable
Fourth Line - Donovan - Bass - Winchester - Cheap and capable of solid minutes
Extra Foreward - McAmmond

On D:
1st Pair - We have Kuba and no one else
2nd Pair - Phillips - Volchenkov - Nuff said
3rd Pair - Picard - Smith - Pretty expensive with Smith but very solid

In goal:
Auld is a two year bargain. Elliot would not be a downgrade from Gerbage.

We need 2 wingers who can put the puck in the net and 1 top pair dman.

As you can see, I believe that Neil, Vermette, Schubert and Gerber should be moved or sent down.

Neely4Life wrote:If we get J Bo, Spezza is basically as good as gone if he resigns.

Why? So we can have a defence but no offence?

Name one team that didn't have a Roy or Hasek goaltender and didn't have a top centremen that has one the Cup.

cash wrote:Its a no brainer simply because of our salary structure; however, Imo, if it were based purely on potential and skill: Spezza is the choice to make. He will be a more valuable player - a more rare player - for the next 10 years than J.Bo...
I really wouldn't want to trade him, but NMCs to the other 3 big money forwards in Ottawa have pretty much made him the only viable option.

(Also, I believe Heatley is a far more rounded, non-one-dimensional player when he isn't stuck with Spezza.)

I disagree with that completely. From a pure hockey point of view a 30 min that rushes the puck, moves the puck and plays against the other teams best players is lot more rare than a PPG forward.

Look around the league right now, I can find you about 15-20 centers that produce or can produce at a PPG pace. On top of that I can find you some youngers centers with just as much potential as Spezza and are more complete players already. IE a Toews or a Backstrom, both guys who already have better all around games right now.

A number 1 D man over a number 1 center any day of the week. Look at the teams that have won the cup the last 15 years, give or take. Colorado, Dallas, Detroit, and New Jersey, aside from Dallas, the other teams have won more than once and its all based on strong D and solid goaltending. You have Tampa and Carolina as well, but they r the exception and havnt been close since and have had their struggles.

asq2 wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:If we get J Bo, Spezza is basically as good as gone if he resigns.

Why? So we can have a defence but no offence?

Name one team that didn't have a Roy or Hasek goaltender and didn't have a top centremen that has one the Cup.

New Jersey won 3... Brodure wasnt the MVP in any of those playoffs either. All based on D. All of those teams that won, their strength was on thier bluelines and in goal.

Also almost beat Colorado in 2001 as well.

Nothing will convince me building a strong blueline first and formost is the correct way to build a team that can compete for the stanley cup year in and year out. Sakic, Yzerman, Modano, Spezza. Remember sesame street, "one of these things is not the like other".

Neely4Life wrote:

asq2 wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:If we get J Bo, Spezza is basically as good as gone if he resigns.

Why? So we can have a defence but no offence?

Name one team that didn't have a Roy or Hasek goaltender and didn't have a top centremen that has one the Cup.

New Jersey won 3... Brodure wasnt the MVP in any of those playoffs either. All based on D. All of those teams that won, their strength was on thier bluelines and in goal.

Defences were more effective in the Old NHL, so New Jersey isn't a great comparison (if that were true, why isn't Florida or even Ottawa dominating?). Plus they still had guys like Arnott, Gomez and Nieuwendyk.

New Jersey is almost impossible to replicate because they have Brodeur who in addition to being a top goalie, functions as a 3rd defenceman. So many more Cup teams have been centred (haha) around top centremen.

Also, when I said a Roy or Hasek, I just generally meant a top all-time goaltender.

The thing is, we have two guys in Wiercioch and Karlsson who are in the system who can be terrific puck-movers, but we don't have anyone to replace Spezza.

Neely4Life wrote:Nothing will convince me building a strong blueline first and formost is the correct way to build a team that can compete for the stanley cup year in and year out. Sakic, Yzerman, Modano, Spezza. Remember sesame street, "one of these things is not the like other".

Uhhh...so we're in agreement then?

Although I don't think we should completely ignore the defensive side of things.

I don't get it. You criticize Spezza for not being a winner and for being bad off of the ice, and yet you like Bouwmeester who has only once in his career (including Juniors) been to the playoffs (and that was when he was traded mid-season) and who allegedly loves alcohol.