GDT - Game #29: Sens @ Ducks, Dec 11, 2016, 4:00pm

is that hockey 30 article supposed to be some type of internal knowledge thing? Cuz he never uttered any of that to the press.

FYI, that was a pretty humiliating performance yesterday. Sens quit after the 2nd goal allowed. Just quit and shutdown completely. I'm not really going to keep pointing the finger at the coach anymore. They should be embarrassed.

Flo The Action wrote:

wprager wrote:Has anyone seen Bobby Ryan?

You mean his wicked pass?

The pass was fine, perhaps a bit lucky it missed everyone. But we traded for Bobby Ryan the 30+ goal scorer, and he had *one* shot on goal during this road trip (he played the last three games). He has 2 shots on goal in the last 9 games he has played. Since he last scored a goal he has 4 assists in 16 games (well, 15 games, really, he only played 2 minutes vs. Buffalo). I don't care how *wicker* his passes are if he gets one assist every four games. If he is injured he should shut it down until he is able to play like what we pay him. Because right now he is not, and that's coming from a huge Ryan supporter. I still support him, I'm not calling him out for not caring or not showing intensity or anything like that -- but if he is not able to play then I'd rather see Buddy out there.

wprager wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

wprager wrote:Has anyone seen Bobby Ryan?

You mean his wicked pass?

The pass was fine, perhaps a bit lucky it missed everyone.  But we traded for Bobby Ryan the 30+ goal scorer, and he had *one* shot on goal during this road trip (he played the last three games).  He has 2 shots on goal in the last 9 games he has played.  Since he last scored a goal he has 4 assists in 16 games (well, 15 games, really, he only played 2 minutes vs. Buffalo).  I don't care how *wicker* his passes are if he gets one assist every four games.  If he is injured he should shut it down until he is able to play like what we pay him.  Because right now he is not, and that's coming from a huge Ryan supporter.  I still support him, I'm not calling him out for not caring or not showing intensity or anything like that -- but if he is not able to play then I'd rather see Buddy out there.

I agree that it's bizarre that he's not getting more chances. Hes definetely got an injury but it's hard to say how much of that has played a factor. There's a big interrogation mark over him right now.

garrioch doesn't seem to think the org will protect him in the expansion draft and that Vegas won't pick him up. I think that's debatable. It be a gamble for sure but they are gonna be in need of top 6 forwards so we might be surprised.

I sure hope he puts it together. He's been a better playmaker than goalscorer since he's been here. But like you said, that's not what the sens are paying him for.

Honestly, with White and Perron and Brown and Dahlen and Chlapik the Senators will have lots of players to try and get more than one assist every four games. None of them will carry the pedigree of being a multiple 30+ goal scorer, but that hasn't really worked out for Bobby.

I know it sound like I'm picking on him but I'm just trying to say that it wouldn't be the worst thing if he got claimed.

Hoff-Machine wrote:is that hockey 30 article supposed to be some type of internal knowledge thing?  Cuz he never uttered any of that to the press.  

FYI, that was a pretty humiliating performance yesterday.  Sens quit after the 2nd goal allowed.  Just quit and shutdown completely.  I'm not really going to keep pointing the finger at the coach anymore.  They should be embarrassed.  

That's what happens when you're 100% outmatched. They were outmatched vs San Jose, outmatched vs LA and badly outmatched vs Anaheim. They get hit into next week and give up, it's not uncommon, most teams will. That's what wins a championship, not Cussing Ovechkin scoring once in a while.

It's been this way for years and years. The Sens have some good skill, but not big enough, then they try to get big and they take 68 penalties per game, but they can't find the right balance because those guys are worth the war debt to sign/acquire and you only get to draft those in the top 5 or if you're VERY lucky after that.

For the record, I also think Bobby Ryan is the absolute sh_its. He's an average player making near elite level money. He can't skate, he can't control a play and if we're lucky he might get 50 points again per season. Ugh. Not the Sens fault, most every team has an albatross/bad contract and this is ours.

I know I can be a bobby defender but even I can admit that it's not looking good. There's a very good point to be made that we could use his cap hit more wisely but could we?
Is there à FA player out there coming next year that we actually have a chance at picking up? Doubtful
Is there a trade we can make for an elite winger out there? Might cost us the one or more of our top 3 prospects.

It's a hell of a conundrum. For better or worse we are likely stuck with Ryan and we better hope he turns it around.

Flo The Action wrote:I know I can be a bobby defender but even I can admit that it's not looking good. There's a very good point to be made that we could use his cap hit more wisely but could we?
Is there à FA player out there coming next year that we actually have a chance at picking up? Doubtful
Is there a trade we can make for an elite winger out there? Might cost us the one or more of our top 3 prospects.

It's a hell of a conundrum. For better or worse we are likely stuck with Ryan and we better hope he turns it around.

At least he's not terrible, he's just a waste of a few million bucks X 6 years. We're not gonna win every game, we're not gonna beat the best teams in the league most nights, but at least we have a decent coach who appears ready to change things a little when we're not winning.

PTFlea wrote:For the record, I also think Bobby Ryan is the absolute sh_its.

That usually means he's good

PTFlea wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:I know I can be a bobby defender but even I can admit that it's not looking good. There's a very good point to be made that we could use his cap hit more wisely but could we?
Is there à FA player out there coming next year that we actually have a chance at picking up? Doubtful
Is there a trade we can make for an elite winger out there? Might cost us the one or more of our top 3 prospects.

It's a hell of a conundrum. For better or worse we are likely stuck with Ryan and we better hope he turns it around.

At least he's not terrible, he's just a waste of a few million bucks X 6 years.  We're not gonna win every game, we're not gonna beat the best teams in the league most nights, but at least we have a decent coach who appears ready to change things a little when we're not winning.

You seem to be ready to accept being an average team.
I don't wanna be the leafs of the late 90's early 2000's.

At some point you have to go in and try to be a winner or declare bust.
I don't think we should declare bust but apart from our 3 best prospects we may want to leverage whatever else we have to try and go for it. It might even make sense to leverage either a white or brown if the returning asset is a no brainer elite type player.

But the way we are going those three are just going to step in for guys we will lose if we maintain the status quo. That's a recipe to remain average for a long time.

Vegas would never touch him. He's regressing, and is still owed a billion dollars over a billion years. I'm glad some others are tiring of Bobby's lack of production. He now has something like 4 goals in his last 45 games.

Flo The Action wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:I know I can be a bobby defender but even I can admit that it's not looking good. There's a very good point to be made that we could use his cap hit more wisely but could we?
Is there à FA player out there coming next year that we actually have a chance at picking up? Doubtful
Is there a trade we can make for an elite winger out there? Might cost us the one or more of our top 3 prospects.

It's a hell of a conundrum. For better or worse we are likely stuck with Ryan and we better hope he turns it around.

At least he's not terrible, he's just a waste of a few million bucks X 6 years.  We're not gonna win every game, we're not gonna beat the best teams in the league most nights, but at least we have a decent coach who appears ready to change things a little when we're not winning.

You seem to be ready to accept being an average team.
I don't wanna be the leafs of the late 90's early 2000's.

At some point you have to go in and try to be a winner or declare bust.
I don't think we should declare bust but apart from our 3 best prospects we may want to leverage whatever else we have to try and go for it. It might even make sense to leverage either a white or brown if the returning asset is a no brainer elite type player.

But the way we are going those three are just going to step in for guys we will lose if we maintain the status quo. That's a recipe to remain average for a long time.

Why do you say we'll be average for a long time without seeing your best prospects come in and make an impact?   maybe they'll bust, but adding a huge, soft handed center and a talented 2 way center and a potential top pairing d could take this team to lofty, fun heights just as karlsson is entering his last year, like Tampa Bay basically

PTFlea wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:I know I can be a bobby defender but even I can admit that it's not looking good. There's a very good point to be made that we could use his cap hit more wisely but could we?
Is there à FA player out there coming next year that we actually have a chance at picking up? Doubtful
Is there a trade we can make for an elite winger out there? Might cost us the one or more of our top 3 prospects.

It's a hell of a conundrum. For better or worse we are likely stuck with Ryan and we better hope he turns it around.

At least he's not terrible, he's just a waste of a few million bucks X 6 years.  We're not gonna win every game, we're not gonna beat the best teams in the league most nights, but at least we have a decent coach who appears ready to change things a little when we're not winning.

You seem to be ready to accept being an average team.
I don't wanna be the leafs of the late 90's early 2000's.

At some point you have to go in and try to be a winner or declare bust.
I don't think we should declare bust but apart from our 3 best prospects we may want to leverage whatever else we have to try and go for it. It might even make sense to leverage either a white or brown if the returning asset is a no brainer elite type player.

But the way we are going those three are just going to step in for guys we will lose if we maintain the status quo. That's a recipe to remain average for a long time.

Why do you say we'll be average for a long time without seeing your best prospects come in and make an impact?   maybe they'll bust, but adding a huge, soft handed center and a talented 2 way center and a potential top pairing d could take this team to lofty, fun heights just as karlsson is entering his last year, like Tampa Bay basically

Because I fear we'll be able to have enough retention. By the time we'll have brown and white play a significant role, we'll likely have lost some of the other players to FA. I wouldn't blame any players for walking out on this team if this is the best we can offer.
Karlsson walking out is a very real threat. If he leaves we'll...

I don't think inserting our you prospects into the line-up and having an impact is going to happen fast enough. It will be interesting to see what happens with turris. Him and karlsson (and methot if he's still around) are the first significant players to have Unristricted contracts coming up.

Flo The Action wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:I know I can be a bobby defender but even I can admit that it's not looking good. There's a very good point to be made that we could use his cap hit more wisely but could we?
Is there à FA player out there coming next year that we actually have a chance at picking up? Doubtful
Is there a trade we can make for an elite winger out there? Might cost us the one or more of our top 3 prospects.

It's a hell of a conundrum. For better or worse we are likely stuck with Ryan and we better hope he turns it around.

At least he's not terrible, he's just a waste of a few million bucks X 6 years.  We're not gonna win every game, we're not gonna beat the best teams in the league most nights, but at least we have a decent coach who appears ready to change things a little when we're not winning.

You seem to be ready to accept being an average team.
I don't wanna be the leafs of the late 90's early 2000's.

At some point you have to go in and try to be a winner or declare bust.
I don't think we should declare bust but apart from our 3 best prospects we may want to leverage whatever else we have to try and go for it. It might even make sense to leverage either a white or brown if the returning asset is a no brainer elite type player.

But the way we are going those three are just going to step in for guys we will lose if we maintain the status quo. That's a recipe to remain average for a long time.

Why do you say we'll be average for a long time without seeing your best prospects come in and make an impact?   maybe they'll bust, but adding a huge, soft handed center and a talented 2 way center and a potential top pairing d could take this team to lofty, fun heights just as karlsson is entering his last year, like Tampa Bay basically

Because I fear we'll be able to have enough retention. By the time we'll have brown and white play a significant role, we'll likely have lost some of the other players to FA. I wouldn't blame any players for walking out on this team if this is the best we can offer.
Karlsson walking out is a very real threat. If he leaves we'll...

I don't think inserting our you prospects into the line-up and having an impact is going to happen fast enough. It will be interesting to see what happens with turris. Him and karlsson (and methot if he's still around) are the first significant players to have Unristricted contracts coming up.

Meh, all teams face UFAs coming up in their lineup. We're about 6 million dollars away in terms of money spend than a team like Tampa Bay, so it's not really like we try to cut corners everywhere. The main problems lie in the fact that Mac may or may not ever come back and may or may not ever be the same. Otherwise, I maintain we have a solid top 6, even though Ryan and Brassard can be a lot better.

The third line is an interesting one. With Pageau there, it has the makings of something special, but again, we all want a player like Dzingel to be on his left and someone who can score on his right. Pyatt will do for now, but eventually you want Brown to be there, or more realistically White and Pageau scoots over to the wing.

The D is pretty good, but if you think Chabot won't be thrust into an impactful role, imagine if Methot gets claimed?

This might be unpopular among (most) Sens fans, but you have to think about your options when it comes to Methot. Do you protect him and leave Ceci open? It seems ludicrous, but one is clearly better than the other (age aside) and he's partners with our franchise player...

PTFlea wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:I know I can be a bobby defender but even I can admit that it's not looking good. There's a very good point to be made that we could use his cap hit more wisely but could we?
Is there à FA player out there coming next year that we actually have a chance at picking up? Doubtful
Is there a trade we can make for an elite winger out there? Might cost us the one or more of our top 3 prospects.

It's a hell of a conundrum. For better or worse we are likely stuck with Ryan and we better hope he turns it around.

At least he's not terrible, he's just a waste of a few million bucks X 6 years.  We're not gonna win every game, we're not gonna beat the best teams in the league most nights, but at least we have a decent coach who appears ready to change things a little when we're not winning.

You seem to be ready to accept being an average team.
I don't wanna be the leafs of the late 90's early 2000's.

At some point you have to go in and try to be a winner or declare bust.
I don't think we should declare bust but apart from our 3 best prospects we may want to leverage whatever else we have to try and go for it. It might even make sense to leverage either a white or brown if the returning asset is a no brainer elite type player.

But the way we are going those three are just going to step in for guys we will lose if we maintain the status quo. That's a recipe to remain average for a long time.

Why do you say we'll be average for a long time without seeing your best prospects come in and make an impact?   maybe they'll bust, but adding a huge, soft handed center and a talented 2 way center and a potential top pairing d could take this team to lofty, fun heights just as karlsson is entering his last year, like Tampa Bay basically

Because I fear we'll be able to have enough retention. By the time we'll have brown and white play a significant role, we'll likely have lost some of the other players to FA. I wouldn't blame any players for walking out on this team if this is the best we can offer.
Karlsson walking out is a very real threat. If he leaves we'll...

I don't think inserting our you prospects into the line-up and having an impact is going to happen fast enough. It will be interesting to see what happens with turris. Him and karlsson (and methot if he's still around) are the first significant players to have Unristricted contracts coming up.

Meh, all teams face UFAs coming up in their lineup.  We're about 6 million dollars away in terms of money spend than a team like Tampa Bay, so it's not really like we try to cut corners everywhere.  The main problems lie in the fact that Mac may or may not ever come back and may or may not ever be the same.  Otherwise, I maintain we have a solid top 6, even though Ryan and Brassard can be a lot better.

The third line is an interesting one.  With Pageau there, it has the makings of something special, but again, we all want a player like Dzingel to be on his left and someone who can score on his right.  Pyatt will do for now, but eventually you want Brown to be there, or more realistically White and Pageau scoots over to the wing.

The D is pretty good, but if you think Chabot won't be thrust into an impactful role, imagine if Methot gets claimed?  

This might be unpopular among (most) Sens fans, but you have to think about your options when it comes to Methot.  Do you protect him and leave Ceci open?  It seems ludicrous, but one is clearly better than the other (age aside) and he's partners with our franchise player...

You seriously think our top 6 is one that can contend in the NHL?
Freaking average.

Leave ceci open and he will absolutely be claimed. Leave Methot open and there's a chance they don't because of his injury history. To me it all comes down to who they have unprotected at forward. I could seriously see a guy like Ryan get claimed because he's a name player.

We will see.

Flo The Action wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:I know I can be a bobby defender but even I can admit that it's not looking good. There's a very good point to be made that we could use his cap hit more wisely but could we?
Is there à FA player out there coming next year that we actually have a chance at picking up? Doubtful
Is there a trade we can make for an elite winger out there? Might cost us the one or more of our top 3 prospects.

It's a hell of a conundrum. For better or worse we are likely stuck with Ryan and we better hope he turns it around.

At least he's not terrible, he's just a waste of a few million bucks X 6 years.  We're not gonna win every game, we're not gonna beat the best teams in the league most nights, but at least we have a decent coach who appears ready to change things a little when we're not winning.

You seem to be ready to accept being an average team.
I don't wanna be the leafs of the late 90's early 2000's.

At some point you have to go in and try to be a winner or declare bust.
I don't think we should declare bust but apart from our 3 best prospects we may want to leverage whatever else we have to try and go for it. It might even make sense to leverage either a white or brown if the returning asset is a no brainer elite type player.

But the way we are going those three are just going to step in for guys we will lose if we maintain the status quo. That's a recipe to remain average for a long time.

Why do you say we'll be average for a long time without seeing your best prospects come in and make an impact?   maybe they'll bust, but adding a huge, soft handed center and a talented 2 way center and a potential top pairing d could take this team to lofty, fun heights just as karlsson is entering his last year, like Tampa Bay basically

Because I fear we'll be able to have enough retention. By the time we'll have brown and white play a significant role, we'll likely have lost some of the other players to FA. I wouldn't blame any players for walking out on this team if this is the best we can offer.
Karlsson walking out is a very real threat. If he leaves we'll...

I don't think inserting our you prospects into the line-up and having an impact is going to happen fast enough. It will be interesting to see what happens with turris. Him and karlsson (and methot if he's still around) are the first significant players to have Unristricted contracts coming up.

Meh, all teams face UFAs coming up in their lineup.  We're about 6 million dollars away in terms of money spend than a team like Tampa Bay, so it's not really like we try to cut corners everywhere.  The main problems lie in the fact that Mac may or may not ever come back and may or may not ever be the same.  Otherwise, I maintain we have a solid top 6, even though Ryan and Brassard can be a lot better.

The third line is an interesting one.  With Pageau there, it has the makings of something special, but again, we all want a player like Dzingel to be on his left and someone who can score on his right.  Pyatt will do for now, but eventually you want Brown to be there, or more realistically White and Pageau scoots over to the wing.

The D is pretty good, but if you think Chabot won't be thrust into an impactful role, imagine if Methot gets claimed?  

This might be unpopular among (most) Sens fans, but you have to think about your options when it comes to Methot.  Do you protect him and leave Ceci open?  It seems ludicrous, but one is clearly better than the other (age aside) and he's partners with our franchise player...

You seriously think our top 6 is one that can contend in the NHL?
Freaking average.

Leave ceci open and he will absolutely be claimed. Leave Methot open and there's a chance they don't because of his injury history. To me it all comes down to who they have unprotected at forward. I could seriously see a guy like Ryan get claimed because he's a name player.

We will see.

To me, we're missing an impact forward - just one to go with Stone, Turris, Hoffman, Brassard, Ryan and hopefully Mac soon. Add in Brown and White to Pageau, Dzingel, Pyatt etc and you're starting to see a pretty deep lineup. I like our forwards and have for a while, but I'd still love to add a big time player like Duchene.

PTFlea wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:I know I can be a bobby defender but even I can admit that it's not looking good. There's a very good point to be made that we could use his cap hit more wisely but could we?
Is there à FA player out there coming next year that we actually have a chance at picking up? Doubtful
Is there a trade we can make for an elite winger out there? Might cost us the one or more of our top 3 prospects.

It's a hell of a conundrum. For better or worse we are likely stuck with Ryan and we better hope he turns it around.

At least he's not terrible, he's just a waste of a few million bucks X 6 years.  We're not gonna win every game, we're not gonna beat the best teams in the league most nights, but at least we have a decent coach who appears ready to change things a little when we're not winning.

You seem to be ready to accept being an average team.
I don't wanna be the leafs of the late 90's early 2000's.

At some point you have to go in and try to be a winner or declare bust.
I don't think we should declare bust but apart from our 3 best prospects we may want to leverage whatever else we have to try and go for it. It might even make sense to leverage either a white or brown if the returning asset is a no brainer elite type player.

But the way we are going those three are just going to step in for guys we will lose if we maintain the status quo. That's a recipe to remain average for a long time.

Why do you say we'll be average for a long time without seeing your best prospects come in and make an impact?   maybe they'll bust, but adding a huge, soft handed center and a talented 2 way center and a potential top pairing d could take this team to lofty, fun heights just as karlsson is entering his last year, like Tampa Bay basically

Because I fear we'll be able to have enough retention. By the time we'll have brown and white play a significant role, we'll likely have lost some of the other players to FA. I wouldn't blame any players for walking out on this team if this is the best we can offer.
Karlsson walking out is a very real threat. If he leaves we'll...

I don't think inserting our you prospects into the line-up and having an impact is going to happen fast enough. It will be interesting to see what happens with turris. Him and karlsson (and methot if he's still around) are the first significant players to have Unristricted contracts coming up.

Meh, all teams face UFAs coming up in their lineup.  We're about 6 million dollars away in terms of money spend than a team like Tampa Bay, so it's not really like we try to cut corners everywhere.  The main problems lie in the fact that Mac may or may not ever come back and may or may not ever be the same.  Otherwise, I maintain we have a solid top 6, even though Ryan and Brassard can be a lot better.

The third line is an interesting one.  With Pageau there, it has the makings of something special, but again, we all want a player like Dzingel to be on his left and someone who can score on his right.  Pyatt will do for now, but eventually you want Brown to be there, or more realistically White and Pageau scoots over to the wing.

The D is pretty good, but if you think Chabot won't be thrust into an impactful role, imagine if Methot gets claimed?  

This might be unpopular among (most) Sens fans, but you have to think about your options when it comes to Methot.  Do you protect him and leave Ceci open?  It seems ludicrous, but one is clearly better than the other (age aside) and he's partners with our franchise player...

You seriously think our top 6 is one that can contend in the NHL?
Freaking average.

Leave ceci open and he will absolutely be claimed. Leave Methot open and there's a chance they don't because of his injury history. To me it all comes down to who they have unprotected at forward. I could seriously see a guy like Ryan get claimed because he's a name player.

We will see.

To me, we're missing an impact forward - just one to go with Stone, Turris, Hoffman, Brassard, Ryan and hopefully Mac soon.  Add in Brown and White to Pageau, Dzingel, Pyatt etc and you're starting to see a pretty deep lineup.  I like our forwards and have for a while, but I'd still love to add a big time player like Duchene.

brown won't likely make the team for another 2 years and it will probably take a couple of season to have an impact. White will be a nice addition but it will take a few years before he has a significant impact. Same for chabot.
I won't hold my breath for mac. I don't see him returning after two years of not playing hockey and being a top 6 forward anymore. To me he's most likely to come back and fit on the third line. He's gonna be a slightly better replacement to z smith.
Lazar is a bust in terms of what we were hoping he could be. Yeah, we need a top 6 winger on the left big times! I can live with Ryan on the right IF we had a full top 6. But realistically we don't have one.

I think you're evaluating things as a best case scenario and those never happen. You always have to factor in injuries and players slumping. And we have very little depth on the wing that can score right now and very little depth on défense that can step into a top 4 role(wideman isn't one IMO).

So yes, to me it's pretty bleak.

We really need to take this over to the tid-bits thread. Game #29 is OVAH!