GDT: Sens @ Philly

SpezDispenser wrote:

Michallica wrote:Worst part is teams like toronto and mtl keep on winning....and walloping opponents at that too.  Don't like our chances to be quite frank.  How the Diddle did we beat boston?

Corvo needs to get in now, I don't want karlsson playing the entire 2 mins of powerplays and tiring himself out.

Some semblance of success can come if you can assemble a 2nd line that doesn't kill momentum every time they're out there.  Frankly, if they're not gonna trade Spezza right now, he needs two veteran wingers to prop him up.  Fast, big guys who know how to compensate for what he's doing right now.

This is where I also agree to a degree with neely that spezza has to make his players better. Right now he's overthinking it and making dumb passes and or shots that will easily be blocked and taken out of the zone. What the heck was he thinking at the end of the game on that 6on4? he passed it directly to the flyers defender, no senator in sight near the side of the net.

Give the flyers credit. They kept it simple and shot it from anywhere and everywhere

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:At the end of the day they planned on a Spezza/Ryan combo long term but guess what, it's turned out to be Turris/Ryan and that's not going to change.

They let Chara walk, they let Alfie walk, they let Redden walk, they cannot let Spezza walk for nothing.

The more I see, the more I'm VERY worried it won't be Spezza walking for nothing, it'll be Ryan.

Ryan is having the time of his life here. The only way he walks is due to the budget.

They need to spend to the floor, without Ryan they can't even do that. So rest easy there, no way Melnyk can get around it.

tim1_2 wrote:To make matters worse, Minnesota got shelled last night by Montreal, so they'll  be pissed.

I was half-joking about Lehner.  Seriously though, if he doesn't let that first no-angle goal in, or stops either the 3rd or 4th, that game could've been ours.  

The Turris no-goal was just typical of how things have been going for us.  

It's not like we're horrible, but we're very mediocre at best.  We're playing a lot like last year actually, but it seems that with the higher talent level in the lineup now, we've gotten away from the hard-work that made last season a bit of a success.  Kinda depressing.  It's like guys think they don't have to put in as much effort since all our stars are healthy.  

Not to pile on him, but on that second goal he had lots of time to push off with his left leg and slide across. Instead he dove and was way out of position to do anything.

NEELY wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:At the end of the day they planned on a Spezza/Ryan combo long term but guess what, it's turned out to be Turris/Ryan and that's not going to change.

They let Chara walk, they let Alfie walk, they let Redden walk, they cannot let Spezza walk for nothing.

The more I see, the more I'm VERY worried it won't be Spezza walking for nothing, it'll be Ryan.

Ryan is having the time of his life here. The only way he walks is due to the budget.

They need to spend to the floor, without Ryan they can't even do that.  So rest easy there, no way Melnyk can get around it.

Assuming he wants to stay, team isn't quite the powerhouse that was expected.

NEELY wrote:At the end of the day they planned on a Spezza/Ryan combo long term but guess what, it's turned out to be Turris/Ryan and that's not going to change.

They let Chara walk, they let Alfie walk, they let Redden walk, they cannot let Spezza walk for nothing.

Incidentally, how many games did they try Ryan on Spezza's wing? Two? Whatever happened there? Clearly Spezza being the player he is he needs a defensive minded forward. Greening did that a couple years ago but for some reason he has really regressed. Michalek used to be able to do that but for some reason (don't think it's speed) no longer tries. Conacher, well, he's never done that. Someone on the pre-game show was suggesting trying MacArthur with Spezza; it was also suggested here. That's not a bad idea. Say what you will about Spezza (and after last night, how can you not), he can still contribute as an offensive catalyst. He is not the type of player to make it happen all on his own (with the exception of 2-3 highlight reel plays every year -- like that one last season on Turris' goal or the play he made on Souray in OT and tried again last night), but Spezza *will* produce and make others better so long as someone minds the store.

SpezDispenser wrote:...And seriously...MacLean is a great coach - I think - but what the Diddle was he thinking on one of the most important PPs we had last game.

No Turris/Ryan/Mac, nope.  He trots out Spezza, Conacher and Michalek.  Dumb, dumb and dumber - especially last night.  Not Spezza with Zibanejad - a kid who looked like he was trying, nope, Michalek and Conacher.  Not Z.Smith who worked his tail off and had some nice chances either.

What the heck makes you put Spezza with Michalek and Conacher out like that?  For fun?  Well, it wasn't fun - at all.

Remember when he put out 1D and 4F and our PP was actually good, or at least looked dangerous? Now he's putting BigRig out there and he makes those wonderfull 4-foot passes back to Karlsson who has a guy stapled to his waist.

SpezDispenser wrote:If we re-sign Ryan, I'm happy.  He's the heart and Cussing right he's the skill.  I said it yesterday and I'll say it again and again, I'd trade Jason Spezza immediately for another Ryan-like player.  I wouldn't flinch - and yesterday's game was a fiasco for Spezza.

At least Conacher had that one chance where he drove the net, Spezza did nothing.  Bad, bad, bad, bad times.

All I really care about is re-signing Ryan.  Then focusing on Methot and MacArthur and Lehner.  With Turris and Karlsson under contract long term and Cowen too I guess, it's time to move Spezza for a top six winger and a 2nd pairing D-man if possible - or a high end prospect.

I have a feeling you are all terribly, terribly wrong about Ryan. He's a great player but I don't see him as a leader or wanting that leadership role. He just wants to come in, play hard, score some goals and have fun. I simply do not see the Roews intensity in him. This guys spends his off-season away from society, which makes me think he is really an introvert. Not that an introvert cannot be a leader, but clearly not the kind of leadership you typically associate with a 'C'.

tim1_2 wrote:We can't even bring guys up right now because we don't have the roster space.  You could send Grant/Z-Bad/BoroCop down to make space, but then you're punishing guys that have actually played well.  Could always waive Kassian to send him down, but I think we want to keep him around the big club.  Unless Murray makes a multiple-player for one-player trade (multiple players going out) our hands are kind of tied right now in terms of roster callups.  The only move that currently makes sense is sending down Grant and calling up Hoffman, but that's not going to turn our fortunes around either.

Since we're not likely to get a quantity for quality trade any time soon, we need a few injuries.

NEELY wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:At the end of the day they planned on a Spezza/Ryan combo long term but guess what, it's turned out to be Turris/Ryan and that's not going to change.

They let Chara walk, they let Alfie walk, they let Redden walk, they cannot let Spezza walk for nothing.

The more I see, the more I'm VERY worried it won't be Spezza walking for nothing, it'll be Ryan.

Ryan is having the time of his life here. The only way he walks is due to the budget.

They need to spend to the floor, without Ryan they can't even do that.  So rest easy there, no way Melnyk can get around it.

I don't think anyone doubts they will open the check book for Ryan, it's making sure he wants to stay here. at least i'm sure he realizes he's got the opportunity here to be one of the top 3 faces of the franchise and the one big one as a forward.
again, if Kessel opted to stay in toronto then maybe yes, Ryan can stay in Ottawa.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:At the end of the day they planned on a Spezza/Ryan combo long term but guess what, it's turned out to be Turris/Ryan and that's not going to change.

They let Chara walk, they let Alfie walk, they let Redden walk, they cannot let Spezza walk for nothing.

Incidentally, how many games did they try Ryan on Spezza's wing?  Two?  Whatever happened there?  Clearly Spezza being the player he is he needs a defensive minded forward.  Greening did that a couple years ago but for some reason he has really regressed.  Michalek used to be able to do that but for some reason (don't think it's speed) no longer tries.  Conacher, well, he's never done that.  Someone on the pre-game show was suggesting trying MacArthur with Spezza; it was also suggested here.  That's not a bad idea.  Say what you will about Spezza (and after last night, how can you not), he can still contribute as an offensive catalyst.  He is not the type of player to make it happen all on his own (with the exception of 2-3 highlight reel plays every year -- like that one last season on Turris' goal or the play he made on Souray in OT and tried again last night), but Spezza *will* produce and make others better so long as someone minds the store.  

Breaking up the Turris line is about the dumbest thing you can do.

Turris is the perfect #1 center for this team right now because he understands how to play the game today, Spezza is still in early 90's mode and that hasn't changed for a while, his game has matured a little over the course of time but he still doesn't get it. You put guys with speed, offense, and a 200 foot game as your #1 and #2 centers... Turris is easily #1 and right now Zibanejad's development is being hampered because they can't find a spot for him in the middle when he should be the future #2.

This team needs to move on from Spezza so badly it isn't funny. IT HASNT WORKED!

I honestly don't think Spezza as a person or player is to blame for his poor play, I think like SpezD says, he has just declined like Heatley did. Injuries catching up, too slow for the game today.

Ev wrote:I honestly don't think Spezza as a person or player is to blame for his poor play, I think like SpezD says, he has just declined like Heatley did. Injuries catching up, too slow for the game today.

I don't think Spezza is ripping that room apart but at the same time he is in absolutely no position to hold people accountable, his injuries have piled up, he still plays the game in a very immature fashion, and he's just too slow. All that said this team was absolutely built around his place on the team and his skill set and every single day it becomes more and more apparent that it is not going to work.

They need to focus on the future and that future is Lehner, Karlsson, Turris, and Ryan. Those 3 you can build a franchise around so it's hardly a mess.

Ev wrote:I honestly don't think Spezza as a person or player is to blame for his poor play, I think like SpezD says, he has just declined like Heatley did. Injuries catching up, too slow for the game today.

I find Ryan gets winded fairly early (not 30 seconds early but he's not the type who can play got full out for 1 minute. In any case, while you see him winded and laboring he is still trying -- head down, arms swinging with each stride to get as much from his tired muscles as he can. Spezza very often takes a few strides then glides. It's not like he is skating slowly, it's that he stops skating.

Now, in the first period last night he was skating up-and-down, delivering hits (and not just the gentle rubbing of the shoulders but real hits). He just didn't do that after the first 20 minutes.

NEELY wrote:
Breaking up the Turris line is about the dumbest thing you can do.  

You don't know me very well, do you?

Now, there are two ways of looking at it -- a line playing well, or three players playing well on the same line. Very possible that you replace MacArthur with, say, Zibanejad and they don't skip a beat (in fact, Zibanejad's size would be a great asset to the top line). Then putting MacArthur with Spezza could open up space for Spezza/Michalek and offload some of the defensive duties as well. We may find ourselves with an actual second scoring line.