Ottawa Senators' Plan "B"

NEELY wrote:If Spezza looks doubtful going into next season, perhaps Ribeiro is the way to go but he's a lateral move from Spezza, both play a pretty similar game with very similar stat lines with basically the same short comings as well.

Similar, but Ribeiro is a considerable downgrade, according to goals and points per game. Rib scores .23 GPG and .77 PPG. Spezza boasts a more potent offense with .37 GPG and 1.02 PPG. I know who I'd rather have on the team.

spader wrote:

NEELY wrote:If Spezza looks doubtful going into next season, perhaps Ribeiro is the way to go but he's a lateral move from Spezza, both play a pretty similar game with very similar stat lines with basically the same short comings as well.

Similar, but Ribeiro is a considerable downgrade, according to goals and points per game. Rib scores .23 GPG and .77 PPG. Spezza boasts a more potent offense with .37 GPG and 1.02 PPG. I know who I'd rather have on the team.

I would look at the last 5 years... what Spezza and Ribeiro did past that is pretty pointless. That's a very flawed argument. Over the past 5 years they have basically been the same player.

NEELY wrote:

spader wrote:

NEELY wrote:If Spezza looks doubtful going into next season, perhaps Ribeiro is the way to go but he's a lateral move from Spezza, both play a pretty similar game with very similar stat lines with basically the same short comings as well.

Similar, but Ribeiro is a considerable downgrade, according to goals and points per game. Rib scores .23 GPG and .77 PPG. Spezza boasts a more potent offense with .37 GPG and 1.02 PPG. I know who I'd rather have on the team.

I would look at the last 5 years... what Spezza and Ribeiro did past that is pretty pointless. That's a very flawed argument. Over the past 5 years they have basically been the same player.

Sure. .88 and .25 (PPG and GPG) for Rib vs. .95 and .38 for Spezza. If you don't thing that a 50% improvement in goals and a (better than) 10% improvement in points is significant, then I don't have much to say in response. The point is, Spezza is a much better goal scorer and a better point producer.

EDIT: Ribeiro is a downgrade, but of course, all I'm looking at are his top stats. I don't know how he is on faceoffs, and I haven't watched him all that much in the last few years (I don't catch many Stars games and haven't seen much of the Caps this year). But, unless he's an upgrade in another major category, I'll continue to think he'd be a considerable downgrade.

NEELY wrote:
I would look at the last 5 years... what Spezza and Ribeiro did past that is pretty pointless. That's a very flawed argument. Over the past 5 years they have basically been the same player.

I don't understand how you can say they are the same player when Spezza has produced more. Maybe they are the same type ? I barely watched Ribeiro since he was in the West for a long time.

Spezza is younger and has produced more, I'd mark that up to a clear advantage.

spader wrote:

NEELY wrote:

spader wrote:

NEELY wrote:If Spezza looks doubtful going into next season, perhaps Ribeiro is the way to go but he's a lateral move from Spezza, both play a pretty similar game with very similar stat lines with basically the same short comings as well.

Similar, but Ribeiro is a considerable downgrade, according to goals and points per game. Rib scores .23 GPG and .77 PPG. Spezza boasts a more potent offense with .37 GPG and 1.02 PPG. I know who I'd rather have on the team.

I would look at the last 5 years... what Spezza and Ribeiro did past that is pretty pointless. That's a very flawed argument. Over the past 5 years they have basically been the same player.

Sure. .88 and .25 (PPG and GPG) for Rib vs. .95 and .38 for Spezza. If you don't thing that a 50% improvement in goals and a (better than) 10% improvement in points is significant, then I don't have much to say in response. The point is, Spezza is a much better goal scorer and a better point producer.

EDIT: Ribeiro is a downgrade, but of course, all I'm looking at are his top stats. I don't know how he is on faceoffs, and I haven't watched him all that much in the last few years (I don't catch many Stars games and haven't seen much of the Caps this year). But, unless he's an upgrade in another major category, I'll continue to think he'd be a considerable downgrade.

Ribeiro is a downgrade, no question... not sure I implied otherwise. Just saying, if you were to go out and replace Spezza, that's a guy who would be good enough and he plays a very similar type of game. That's my only point here.

Hoags wrote:

NEELY wrote:
I would look at the last 5 years... what Spezza and Ribeiro did past that is pretty pointless. That's a very flawed argument. Over the past 5 years they have basically been the same player.

I don't understand how you can say they are the same player when Spezza has produced more. Maybe they are the same type ? I barely watched Ribeiro since he was in the West for a long time.

Spezza is younger and has produced more, I'd mark that up to a clear advantage.

He's also injured most years and has a bad back... I'll take a couple years of being long in the tooth vs a guy that may and may not be able to stay healthy for the next 5 years. Not saying I would take Ribeiro over Spezza either, just that one particular argument is weak if you are talking about these two in regards to one another.

I think you guys are missing Neely's point. IF we had to replace Spezza, Ribeiro is a UFA that wouldn't cost anything more than some of Melnyk's money. Via trade, many other things would be possible, but when was the last time you saw a #1C switch hands?

Ribeiro is probably the best option on the market this summer...and if the choice is between doing nothing and letting Turris/Z-Bad carry the ball, or signing Ribeiro...Well, I'll take Ribeiro please.

tim1_2 wrote:I think you guys are missing Neely's point. IF we had to replace Spezza, Ribeiro is a UFA that wouldn't cost anything more than some of Melnyk's money. Via trade, many other things would be possible, but when was the last time you saw a #1C switch hands?

Ribeiro is probably the best option on the market this summer...and if the choice is between doing nothing and letting Turris/Z-Bad carry the ball, or signing Ribeiro...Well, I'll take Ribeiro please.

You're not replacing Spezza, you're plugging a hole and hoping for the best if he's not in the lineup. Ribeiro is fine in that instance.

tim1_2 wrote:I think you guys are missing Neely's point. IF we had to replace Spezza, Ribeiro is a UFA that wouldn't cost anything more than some of Melnyk's money. Via trade, many other things would be possible, but when was the last time you saw a #1C switch hands?

SeawaySensFan wrote:
You're not replacing Spezza, you're plugging a hole and hoping for the best if he's not in the lineup. Ribeiro is fine in that instance.

Doesn't sound any different from replacing Karlsson by trading for Boyle, if we had to for some reason.

I still bet Murray will do nothing and ride Turris/Zibanejad next year in the unlikely event Spezza doesn't play next year.

Does anyone else have brilliant ideas for replacing Spezza and/or plugging the hole should the need arise??

Hoags wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:I think you guys are missing Neely's point. IF we had to replace Spezza, Ribeiro is a UFA that wouldn't cost anything more than some of Melnyk's money. Via trade, many other things would be possible, but when was the last time you saw a #1C switch hands?

SeawaySensFan wrote:
You're not replacing Spezza, you're plugging a hole and hoping for the best if he's not in the lineup. Ribeiro is fine in that instance.

Doesn't sound any different from replacing Karlsson by trading for Boyle, if we had to for some reason.

I still bet Murray will do nothing and ride Turris/Zibanejad next year in the unlikely event Spezza doesn't play next year.

Highly likely with tightwad Melnyk writing the cheques.

SeawaySensFan wrote:
Highly likely with tightwad Melnyk writing the cheques.

Exactly, any big money will be going toward re-signing our current players. We've got a few players due for some raises coming off their ELCs in the next few years.

tim1_2 wrote:I think you guys are missing Neely's point. IF we had to replace Spezza, Ribeiro is a UFA that wouldn't cost anything more than some of Melnyk's money. Via trade, many other things would be possible, but when was the last time you saw a #1C switch hands?

Ribeiro is probably the best option on the market this summer...and if the choice is between doing nothing and letting Turris/Z-Bad carry the ball, or signing Ribeiro...Well, I'll take Ribeiro please.

I still think B richards is a far more better option.

I would take Richards over Ribeiro in a second, but I really don't think Richards will get bought out this summer.

Remote chance of a trade if Torts gets nuked as well.

tim1_2 wrote:I think you guys are missing Neely's point. IF we had to replace Spezza, Ribeiro is a UFA that wouldn't cost anything more than some of Melnyk's money. Via trade, many other things would be possible, but when was the last time you saw a #1C switch hands?

Ribeiro is probably the best option on the market this summer...and if the choice is between doing nothing and letting Turris/Z-Bad carry the ball, or signing Ribeiro...Well, I'll take Ribeiro please.

I may have missed his point, but I was responding to the "Rib and Spezz are basically the same player" thing by outlining how different their production has been.

NEELY wrote:

spader wrote:

NEELY wrote:

spader wrote:

NEELY wrote:If Spezza looks doubtful going into next season, perhaps Ribeiro is the way to go but he's a lateral move from Spezza, both play a pretty similar game with very similar stat lines with basically the same short comings as well.

Similar, but Ribeiro is a considerable downgrade, according to goals and points per game. Rib scores .23 GPG and .77 PPG. Spezza boasts a more potent offense with .37 GPG and 1.02 PPG. I know who I'd rather have on the team.

I would look at the last 5 years... what Spezza and Ribeiro did past that is pretty pointless. That's a very flawed argument. Over the past 5 years they have basically been the same player.

Sure. .88 and .25 (PPG and GPG) for Rib vs. .95 and .38 for Spezza. If you don't thing that a 50% improvement in goals and a (better than) 10% improvement in points is significant, then I don't have much to say in response. The point is, Spezza is a much better goal scorer and a better point producer.

EDIT: Ribeiro is a downgrade, but of course, all I'm looking at are his top stats. I don't know how he is on faceoffs, and I haven't watched him all that much in the last few years (I don't catch many Stars games and haven't seen much of the Caps this year). But, unless he's an upgrade in another major category, I'll continue to think he'd be a considerable downgrade.

Ribeiro is a downgrade, no question... not sure I implied otherwise. Just saying, if you were to go out and replace Spezza, that's a guy who would be good enough and he plays a very similar type of game. That's my only point here.

This is a fine point. You often overstate your opinion, and I think you did so when you said they're basically the same player. That was where I had a problem. I don't think one player can be basically the same as another if he's a downgrade.

tim1_2 wrote:I would take Richards over Ribeiro in a second, but I really don't think Richards will get bought out this summer.

Remote chance of a trade if Torts gets nuked as well.

If the Rags miss, is this the end of the Slats era?

Comparison

Ribeiro last 5 yrs: 308 pts
Spezza last 5 yrs: 276 pts

Obviously Ribeiro has played more games...but having a #1 C who is injury prone is a big problem too, because it routinely leaves you with a big hole to fill. Isn't it better to have a slightly less talented #1 C that stays in your lineup?

I am a huge Spezza fan, and stick up for the guy when he's slagged. I would choose Spezza 10 times out of 10 over Ribeiro, injury concerns aside.

Spezza will have every chance, and rightfully so, to keep his spot here. All I'm saying is that if he has to leave (retirement or otherwise), Ribeiro wouldn't be a terrible option.