GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators @ New Jersey Devils - 1:00pm ET - Mon. Feb. 18th, 2013

Hoags wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:Would Colorado consider Bishop and DaCosta? That's a high payment... but I can't believe the Leafs could have the players to get ROR. They don't want to trade Gardiner... who else do they have? Kadri?

They want a roster player(forward or D). Don't think DaCosta qualifies. Burke didn't want to trade Gardiner, not sure about Nonis. They might be more inclined to do so since they have Rielly now.

sandysensfan wrote:
That's a roster player and a high prospect. Maybe throw in a 2nd round pick from 2014.. then let it be done.

They don't need a goalie, they have no D since EJ is out (Shane O'Brien is in their top pairing).

It would cost us Wiercioch or maybe even Cowen from their POV or Silf/Zib. We're not giving up anything of value with Bishop or DaCosta, they are. Players like ROR don't hit the market very often at all. Sherman will have many choices.

Really depends on if Avalanche scouts like our prospects more than anyone else's.

For god's sake the kid hasn't proven himself yet. He's not even on his second contract, and holding out, frankly, does not endear him to me, nor does give him a chance to show off. If he was smart about it he'd sign a one-year deal. He's RFA now, is he now? Why haven't GMs fallen over each other trying to throw an offer sheet at him? You are saying Cowen (a projected top-5 pick before he got injured) or Silfverberg (payoff record-setter in the second best league) or Zibanejad (a top-10 pick)? How are we "not giving up anything of value" with Bishop? That's ludicrous. Da Costa is unproven, for sure, but he has shown very good improvement from his extended try-out last season. So long as you don't expect him to be a 1LC you'd be getting a very good complementary player.

I was not sold on O'Reilly and nothing in this discussion has done anything but make me feel any different. Usually we overvalue our own prospects, this time we are overvaluing someone else's.

He rejected a 2 year @$3.5M deal and a 5 year deal at a lower cap hit, and is reportedly seeking $5M. We thought Fisher was somewhat overpriced at $4.2M, and that's before the new CBA and the cap going down next season. Are we saying ROR is 100% going to be better than Fisher?

Speculation is he felt snubbed not getting the 'C'. Why did he think he deserved it? Not arguing whether he deserved it more, just asking if *he* deserved it without question?

If someone wanted to pay him $5M (anything from $3.4 to 5 and change), they could throw an offer sheet his way and it would cost a 1st and a 3rd. That's way less than what we are discussing here. I'll ask again, why hasn't this been done already? If the Avs match they are forced to keep him, right; could they match and suspend him? I don't think they want him in the room if the speculation mentioned above is correct.

Hoags wrote:

Martt, you mad, bro?

SpezDispenser wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:Would Colorado consider Bishop and DaCosta? That's a high payment... but I can't believe the Leafs could have the players to get ROR. They don't want to trade Gardiner... who else do they have? Kadri?

They'd want a lot more than that I think.

That's a roster player and a high prospect. Maybe throw in a 2nd round pick from 2014.. then let it be done.

I love Da Costa, but he's not a 'high prospect'. He's a guy that if the Avs are smart, they have a file on and they ask for him instead of a 3rd tacked on. It'd be Zibanejad + Wiercioch + 3rd or Da Costa - even then I think it's probably not enough, hard to say. That's at least in the ballpark.

1st and 3rd are the RFA compensation for $5M. That's it and it's not the ballpark. Zibanejad + Wiercioch is way more than a 1st (assuming we are not talking about a top-3, and we shouldn't be).

LeKing wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:Would Colorado consider Bishop and DaCosta? That's a high payment... but I can't believe the Leafs could have the players to get ROR. They don't want to trade Gardiner... who else do they have? Kadri?

They'd want a lot more than that I think.

That's a roster player and a high prospect. Maybe throw in a 2nd round pick from 2014.. then let it be done.

OReilly was their leading scorer last year, plus one of the leaders as well as a terrific defensive player.
We're not getting him for DaCosta who has 1 goal and Bishop who's played 3 games.

Bishop has 26 starts in the NHL.

SpezDispenser wrote:http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1353427&page=17

The Aliens references on the first page are awesome!


Maybe you haven't been keeping up on current events, but we just got our ***** kicked, pal!

ROR had one good year (55 pts) and isn't particularly physical. Giving him a big and/or long contract is a risk, IMO.

tim1_2 wrote:ROR had one good year (55 pts) and isn't particularly physical. Giving him a big and/or long contract is a risk, IMO.

I agree with this but I am also of the belief that last year wasn't a fluke. I can't remember the last time a 2nd round pick made his team out of his draft year. That said, you have to be careful he wasn't an ok player putting up great numbers on an awful team. You would give Matt Molson a 5 year deal at 5 mil so... same kind of situation.

I'm all for getting ROR simply because of the views I have of Zibanejad and ROR but still, can't make snap or panic decisions with this one.

SpezDispenser wrote:When was the last time we saw a snap shot like Silf's SO winner? I can't recall personally.

Reminded me of his breakaway goal on Price, actually.

NEELY wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:ROR had one good year (55 pts) and isn't particularly physical. Giving him a big and/or long contract is a risk, IMO.

I agree with this but I am also of the belief that last year wasn't a fluke. I can't remember the last time a 2nd round pick made his team out of his draft year. That said, you have to be careful he wasn't an ok player putting up great numbers on an awful team. You would give Matt Molson a 5 year deal at 5 mil so... same kind of situation.

I'm all for getting ROR simply because of the views I have of Zibanejad and ROR but still, can't make snap or panic decisions with this one.

I agree it wasn't a fluke, but it gets dangerous when you go giving contracts based on potential versus actual performance. Not sure the Murrays want to touch that.

Yup, it's a tricky situation I agree and unlike myself who would make this deal yesterday, I am glad the Murray's don't.

NEELY wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:ROR had one good year (55 pts) and isn't particularly physical. Giving him a big and/or long contract is a risk, IMO.

I agree with this but I am also of the belief that last year wasn't a fluke. I can't remember the last time a 2nd round pick made his team out of his draft year. That said, you have to be careful he wasn't an ok player putting up great numbers on an awful team. You would give Matt Molson a 5 year deal at 5 mil so... same kind of situation.

I'm all for getting ROR simply because of the views I have of Zibanejad and ROR but still, can't make snap or panic decisions with this one.

Is he worth more than a 1st and a 3rd? Because that's the RFA compensation for a $5M salary.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:ROR had one good year (55 pts) and isn't particularly physical. Giving him a big and/or long contract is a risk, IMO.

I agree with this but I am also of the belief that last year wasn't a fluke. I can't remember the last time a 2nd round pick made his team out of his draft year. That said, you have to be careful he wasn't an ok player putting up great numbers on an awful team. You would give Matt Molson a 5 year deal at 5 mil so... same kind of situation.

I'm all for getting ROR simply because of the views I have of Zibanejad and ROR but still, can't make snap or panic decisions with this one.

Is he worth more than a 1st and a 3rd? Because that's the RFA compensation for a $5M salary.

Yeah, I'd say he's worth a 1st and a 3rd, and probably a little more.

For sure

wprager wrote:
For god's sake the kid hasn't proven himself yet. He's not even on his second contract, and holding out, frankly, does not endear him to me, nor does give him a chance to show off. If he was smart about it he'd sign a one-year deal. He's RFA now, is he now? Why haven't GMs fallen over each other trying to throw an offer sheet at him? You are saying Cowen (a projected top-5 pick before he got injured) or Silfverberg (payoff record-setter in the second best league) or Zibanejad (a top-10 pick)? How are we "not giving up anything of value" with Bishop? That's ludicrous. Da Costa is unproven, for sure, but he has shown very good improvement from his extended try-out last season. So long as you don't expect him to be a 1LC you'd be getting a very good complementary player.

I was not sold on O'Reilly and nothing in this discussion has done anything but make me feel any different. Usually we overvalue our own prospects, this time we are overvaluing someone else's.

He rejected a 2 year @$3.5M deal and a 5 year deal at a lower cap hit, and is reportedly seeking $5M. We thought Fisher was somewhat overpriced at $4.2M, and that's before the new CBA and the cap going down next season. Are we saying ROR is 100% going to be better than Fisher?

Offer sheets are pretty much dead, teams don't want to piss other teams off. You rarely see them, and RoR doesn't have to sign one if he does not want to. Colorado will most likely match anyway. You'd have to hand out a poison pill offer sheet like Philly did to Weber to have any chance of success there.

O'Reilly is a proven NHLer, Da Costa is not. As for Bishop, they don't need him so it's not much value for them. They want someone they can slot in their roster right away who can produce.

There's a risk involved in getting a player like O'Rielly, there is risk in any trade. This is where GMs leans on their scouts for their assessment. Did we not "overpay" for Turris (who was seen as a borderline bust at the time) ? It really depends on what Muray and his staff think of RoR and if whatever we're willing to give up is worth it. LeBrun said we were the most serious interested party so it seems Murray thinks it's worth it. Murray has most likely made an offer and Sherman is shopping around the league to see what else he can get. It doesn't matter what RoR is worth, it's what other teams think he is worth. There were 5 teams in the running for Turris, there is a lot more for RoR but who knows how many are "serious" and how many are just kicking tires. We need to have the best offer on the table.

As for his contract demands I suspect he's just trying to force a trade. Turris did the same thing, did we give him $4-5 M ?

Yeah, there won't be an offer sheet, unless trade demands from Colorado are stupid.

No way ROR will sign an offer sheet because there is the risk of Colorado matching... Weber wanted out of Nashville and look what happened.

Hoags wrote:

As for his contract demands I suspect he's just trying to force a trade. Turris did the same thing, did we give him $4-5 M ?

That's basically what I said yesterday. The trade cost will be a little less than everyone thinks and same for the contract. Just like Turris.

Hoags wrote:
Offer sheets are pretty much dead, teams don't want to piss other teams off. You rarely see them, and RoR doesn't have to sign one if he does not want to. Colorado will most likely match anyway. You'd have to hand out a poison pill offer sheet like Philly did to Weber to have any chance of success there.

O'Reilly is a proven NHLer, Da Costa is not. As for Bishop, they don't need him so it's not much value for them. They want someone they can slot in their roster right away who can produce.

There's a risk involved in getting a player like O'Rielly, there is risk in any trade. This is where GMs leans on their scouts for their assessment. Did we not "overpay" for Turris (who was seen as a borderline bust at the time) ? It really depends on what Muray and his staff think of RoR and if whatever we're willing to give up is worth it. LeBrun said we were the most serious interested party so it seems Murray thinks it's worth it. Murray has most likely made an offer and Sherman is shopping around the league to see what else he can get. It doesn't matter what RoR is worth, it's what other teams think he is worth. There were 5 teams in the running for Turris, there is a lot more for RoR but who knows how many are "serious" and how many are just kicking tires. We need to have the best offer on the table.

As for his contract demands I suspect he's just trying to force a trade. Turris did the same thing, did we give him $4-5 M ?

O'Reilly in Colorado is already a poison pill. They don't want him there because he doesn't want to be there -- again, this is assuming the rumors are true as to him being miffed over the 'C'. If they match they have to keep him for a year and they would rather not. So they may be more inclined to take the 1st and 3rd than you think.

As for them not needing Bishop, Varlamov isn't exactly having a career year. Calgary needs him more, of course, but don't rule out Colorado.