Ottawa Senators TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

I don't know where the 1st came talk came from, but McCabe getting a 3rd and an AHLer is more than what I think Ottawa would get for Phillips.

- Seidenberg + player got two players and a 2nd.
- Andrew Alberts a 3rd.

Just a few. I don't think Phillips is worth what people are discussing, so I would trade him. Because I think the Sens are better off going in a different direction than paying someone more than they are worth. I would put Phillips at $2M-$2.2M (Kelly/Neil range).

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Real_ESPNLeBrun
Pierre LeBrun
Senators and Phillips camp communicated again today but so far still can't bridge gap in contract talks... Tick tock...

Dash wrote:Just a few. I don't think Phillips is worth what people are discussing, so I would trade him. Because I think the Sens are better off going in a different direction than paying someone more than they are worth. I would put Phillips at $2M-$2.2M (Kelly/Neil range).

On the other hand, if Phillips had played his whole career in a different city and he was a 2 - 2.2 million dollar player, Ottawa would likely have to give him 3 - 3.5 anyway.

Dash wrote:I don't know where the 1st came talk came from, but McCabe getting a 3rd and an AHLer is more than what I think Ottawa would get for Phillips.

- Seidenberg + player got two players and a 2nd.
- Andrew Alberts a 3rd.

Just a few. I don't think Phillips is worth what people are discussing, so I would trade him. Because I think the Sens are better off going in a different direction than paying someone more than they are worth. I would put Phillips at $2M-$2.2M (Kelly/Neil range).

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Real_ESPNLeBrun
Pierre LeBrun
Senators and Phillips camp communicated again today but so far still can't bridge gap in contract talks... Tick tock...

I'm sorry, I'm not understanding the point here. My point was that defensive D never really garner much of a return in deadline deals, but they still always get paid well on the open market. A 2nd + a middling prospect is probably the best return you could get for Phillips (and that's basically what the Seidenberg deal amounted to). And yet Seidenberg turned around and signed a $3.25 mil per year / 4 year deal. The example furthers the point I'm making: defensive D never seem to command a big return in a deadline deal, but they still command lots of money on the open market. Again, look at Mitchell. That's the going rate for someone like Phillips, and Phillips doesn't have the health concerns that he does. If Phillips reach UFA status, he will command a deal like that or better.

With your line of thinking, I just don't see how you'll ever be happy no matter what happens. Either we trade him for nothing (a 3rd and an AHLer), or we overpay him (because he's not signing for $2 mil). What you're really saying is that you think he's junk & that you want him off the team no matter what. On that point, I have to respectfully disagree, for all the reasons I've gone over in the posts above.

If we had Anderson in goal in place of Leclaire early on, and if Spezza did not get injured, we'd be sitting in a playoff spot right now, and that's not a lie. Things snowballed, to say the least, but look at the team now -- they are missing 8 regulars out of the lineup and are still fairly competitive.

It'll be interesting how they fare against the Flyers, though. Could be a barn burner.

The point is.... I don't want to see the Senators re-sign Phillips for more money than he is currently being paid. Why should he get paid as much or more than he is currently making when he has been crap? He's not going to get better, and giving in is a bad example to set.

For a guy who I was praising this off-season for being a truly admirable person, seems like his not who he led me to believe he was. All this talk about wanting to stay and taking a pay cut. Where is it now? A paycut means a reduction on your current pay, not a reduction in the pay you could receive in the future.

Trade the f$%#er and get what you can for him right now, and if he is a man of his word he will come back. If not you know he is full of it.

Dash wrote:The point is.... I don't want to see the Senators re-sign Phillips for more money than he is currently being paid. Why should he get paid as much or more than he is currently making when he has been crap? He's not going to get better, and giving in is a bad example to set.

For a guy who I was praising this off-season for being a truly admirable person, seems like his not who he led me to believe he was. All this talk about wanting to stay and taking a pay cut. Where is it now? A paycut means a reduction on your current pay, not a reduction in the pay you could receive in the future.

Trade the f$%#er and get what you can for him right now, and if he is a man of his word he will come back. If not you know he is full of it.

I don't think you have to worry on this front, then. BM has already said that he expects a pay reduction -- a reduction from the $3.5 he's making now. I think the reduction you're talking about, however, is going to be too much for the Phillips' camp (i.e., $2 or 2.2 mil -- he's not going to settle for something that low). We will sign him for under what he's making now, or we will trade him, I'd say. But signing him for less than he's making now will almost certainly mean something like $2.75-3.25 mil. Somewhere in that neighbourhood, anyway -- less money, but still somewhat reflective of his perceived marked value. If he signs here, he'll be taking a pay cut in both sense, on what he's making now and on what he could make on the open market.

wprager wrote:If we had Anderson in goal in place of Leclaire early on, and if Spezza did not get injured, we'd be sitting in a playoff spot right now, and that's not a lie. Things snowballed, to say the least, but look at the team now -- they are missing 8 regulars out of the lineup and are still fairly competitive.

It'll be interesting how they fare against the Flyers, though. Could be a barn burner.

No but it's not a fact. I doubt Anderson or Spezza not getting injured vaults us into the playoffs.

Big Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:If we had Anderson in goal in place of Leclaire early on, and if Spezza did not get injured, we'd be sitting in a playoff spot right now, and that's not a lie. Things snowballed, to say the least, but look at the team now -- they are missing 8 regulars out of the lineup and are still fairly competitive.

It'll be interesting how they fare against the Flyers, though. Could be a barn burner.

No but it's not a fact. I doubt Anderson or Spezza not getting injured vaults us into the playoffs.

Before Spezza went down we were a moderate winning streak away from being in 8th. Anderson playing instead of Leclaire surely means we win a few more games in October/November. Don't forget that we won *one* game in January. Before that we were still within shouting distance.

wprager wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:If we had Anderson in goal in place of Leclaire early on, and if Spezza did not get injured, we'd be sitting in a playoff spot right now, and that's not a lie. Things snowballed, to say the least, but look at the team now -- they are missing 8 regulars out of the lineup and are still fairly competitive.

It'll be interesting how they fare against the Flyers, though. Could be a barn burner.

No but it's not a fact. I doubt Anderson or Spezza not getting injured vaults us into the playoffs.

Before Spezza went down we were a moderate winning streak away from being in 8th. Anderson playing instead of Leclaire surely means we win a few more games in October/November. Don't forget that we won *one* game in January. Before that we were still within shouting distance.

I don't want to debate hypotheticals, but goaltending was categorically not the problem with this team in October and November. Both goalies played well during that stretch.

Leclaire: http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/2844/gamelog;_ylt=Ah2rnlNLoOZ7NaaJ4eKj8WrCfgM6

Elliott: http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/4136/gamelog;_ylt=Ah2rnlNLoOZ7NaaJ4eKj8WrCfgM6

If this team was anywhere near close to being a playoff contender, I don't think you would have seen BM blow it up the way he is doing it now. You don't blow up teams that underperform based on one positional weakness and one injury; you blow it up when the whole thing is beyond repair.

Dash wrote:The point is.... I don't want to see the Senators re-sign Phillips for more money than he is currently being paid. Why should he get paid as much or more than he is currently making when he has been crap? He's not going to get better, and giving in is a bad example to set.

For a guy who I was praising this off-season for being a truly admirable person, seems like his not who he led me to believe he was. All this talk about wanting to stay and taking a pay cut. Where is it now? A paycut means a reduction on your current pay, not a reduction in the pay you could receive in the future.

Trade the f$%#er and get what you can for him right now, and if he is a man of his word he will come back. If not you know he is full of it.

I agree with you a lot, but you are completely out to lunch on this one.

So he's an effer because he loves this team so much he wants to play here and get paid what he's worth? Wow! Hate it when people demand fair wages and exert their rights. I miss slavery!

It's absurd. You're attacking his character because he wants to finish his career where he started it. He has not given up on his team, nor does he want to. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this guy's character, and it is completely unfair to attack him because he wants to stay here, and he's exerting a right he was given.

You're saying, if he doesn't choose to waive his right to not be traded, goes to another team for 3 months, away from his young kids and wife who have lives here as well, and then comes back here to re-sign a contract at less than what he's worth, he's a f*****, a liar, and a terrible person, and not at all who you thought he was.

Frankly I applaud him. Ideally, I would love for your scenario to take place, but I'm not going to vilify him, and attack him if he doesn't. I love the fact that he really doesn't want to leave this team. He owes us nothing, and you owe him a lot more.

We should have blown the team up A LOT earlier than this season.

The same thing you argue about Phillips can be argued about everyone else that has signed or re-signed with Ottawa. How many players have Ottawa signed that we fans wish never happened? Fisher? Nobody argues how popular he was, but the $$$ was absurd, right? Well, he just wanted to stay with his family in the city that drafted him and he has played for his entire career

And times change, and for every year that a defensive defenceman is signed for an outrageous amount, the next year the price goes down.

But whatever, the Sens are going to probably sign him to a long contract with a NTC and he will likely continue to play poorly and fans will be calling for him to be traded and for Murray to be fired. Same thing happened with Kuba, remember.

Dash wrote:The same thing you argue about Phillips can be argued about everyone else that has signed or re-signed with Ottawa. How many players have Ottawa signed that we fans wish never happened? Fisher? Nobody argues how popular he was, but the $$$ was absurd, right? Well, he just wanted to stay with his family in the city that drafted him and he has played for his entire career

And times change, and for every year that a defensive defenceman is signed for an outrageous amount, the next year the price goes down.

But whatever, the Sens are going to probably sign him to a long contract with a NTC and he will likely continue to play poorly and fans will be calling for him to be traded and for Murray to be fired. Same thing happened with Kuba, remember.

If Phillips signs something like a 3x3 deal, with a NTC for the first two years in all likelihood, I don't think people will have have anything that they can rightfully complain about. Phillips will have taken a reduction in salary (real and perceived), and BM will have reduced his salary, as promised, and gotten him for far less than he would have had to have spend on the open market for a comparable player. The NTC thing will be necessary to keep everyone honest, and is the trade-off for the salary reduction. Win-win, or as close as a win-win that we're going to see out of this situation.

What you seem to be most upset about is that really good deals for franchises are a rarity nowadays. I can sympathize with that sentiment, but I'm not sure what you can do about it. For every Ville Leino situation out there, there are 50 guys who are overpaid in some sense of the word. And the market always adjust: today's underpaid / value guys are tomorrow's overpaid guys. Look at Volchenkov: a deal at $2.5 mil, but a bit of albatraoss at $4.25 mil. It's the same story, league wide.

I agree with Volchenkov - that was too much money. I loved the guy but he is not worth it. I guess I would have taken him at $3-$3.5M. So I guess I shouldn't complain about Phillips. But I'm pretty turned off by his play. I really liked him too. But I fear he is playing the way he is gong to play from here on out, and will only get worse.

Dash wrote:I agree with Volchenkov - that was too much money. I loved the guy but he is not worth it. I guess I would have taken him at $3-$3.5M. So I guess I shouldn't complain about Phillips. But I'm pretty turned off by his play. I really liked him too. But I fear he is playing the way he is gong to play from here on out, and will only get worse.

That is a fair point, and a very valid concern. I tend to think, as above, that his bad play this year has as much do to with the bad team and his young partner, but we'll definitely find out one way or the other before too long. I look to his past, and his most recent play alongside Lee, and I have hope for the future. But if he Reddens us, we Phillips proponents are going to look pretty silly. All I can say is that 3x3 will be a lot easier to handle than 6.5 x 6.

Wow, so Leclaire gets his first start since December... as he is starting for Bingo.

Based on what Murray said on HNIC I would guess Phillips is going to be traded. Phillips turned down The Sens offer... I'm a Phillips fan but he really isn't in a position to be turning anything down.

He has said all the right things and I believe him but at some point your actions have to speak louder than words in terms of your commitment to The Sens. If he turned down a low ball offer, I get that, if it was somewhere in the range of 3mil x 3 years.... gotta question that.

All that said, on the open market he probably gets a 15-20 mil contract, I don't think Ottawa will be offering him anything more than 10-12 MAX. That's a lot of cash to be turning down.

My guess is tonight is Phillips last game as a Sen.

NEELY wrote:Based on what Murray said on HNIC I would guess Phillips is going to be traded. Phillips turned down The Sens offer... I'm a Phillips fan but he really isn't in a position to be turning anything down.

He has said all the right things and I believe him but at some point your actions have to speak louder than words in terms of your commitment to The Sens. If he turned down a low ball offer, I get that, if it was somewhere in the range of 3mil x 3 years.... gotta question that.

All that said, on the open market he probably gets a 15-20 mil contract, I don't think Ottawa will be offering him anything more than 10-12 MAX. That's a lot of cash to be turning down.

My guess is tonight is Phillips last game as a Sen.

Really? Was this just on? Crap!

Well, if we made a fair offer, somewhere in the 3x3 area, and he turned it down, then it is time to move on. The return will not be what we want, I'm guessing, but if we're not going to sign him to a fair deal, we're not going to sign him.