GAME DAY: Preseason - Boston @ Ottawa - 7:00pm ET - Fri. Sep. 25th, 2009--PLUS afterthoughts...

asq2 wrote:

40 points for Cheechoo?

I thought Lee was OK. He had to cover for Karlsson, who wanders around the ice a lot. As he gets more accustomed to NHL systems, hopefully Erik will make it easier on his defensive partner.

MurderOnIce wrote:

asq2 wrote:

40 points for Cheechoo?

I thought Lee was OK. He had to cover for Karlsson, who wanders around the ice a lot. As he gets more accustomed to NHL systems, hopefully Erik will make it easier on his defensive partner.

I would agree with you. I really like Karlsson but he does wander a lot and his confidence is on the verge of cocky. He is often down in the faceoff circle. Not that it is bad, in fact it is refreshing but it is never good for the defense partner, who turns out to be the bridesmaid. Lee wasn't bad at all so far. He needs to be more physical but he has been pretty good positionally and isn't making mistakes.

N4L wrote:

Lee - agreed. He has done nothing to actually deserve a spot on this team and I'm not sure he will ever be a regular in Ottawa. He has Pheonix written all over him

Carkner - maybe... Im not sure he makes the team and if he does I'm not sure Clouston would cut a guy like him...

Karlsson - exactly what I thought he would be and that's phenominal

Leclaire - I'm sold on him but I'm not sure he will stay healthy... Hope he does though, he has it all.

Phillips and A train - agreed. A Train like I have said before may very well be a piece that gets dealt at some point this year.

Campoli - meh, no real opinion on him right now, still gotta see more.

Shannon - I like the guy but I think people give the guy too much credit. He's solid, probably a top 6 guy, but the Alfi comparissons? More like a McDonald to me.

Kovalev - he is what he is

Cheechoo and Foligno - I think Foligno gets closer to 50, maybe 60.

Neil - playing is role he will show his worth, even if it isnt 2 mil worth

Schubert - How has he not been waived yet?

Kelly - Love him but he def isnt needed in Ottawa at this point.

Spezza - Keep it up. I want results before I give the guy the kind of praise he is looking for.

Alfi - I dont know... I hope he hasnt lost a step but Alfi is Alfi and he will once again be the best player in Ottawa.

N4L wrote:

MurderOnIce wrote:

asq2 wrote:

40 points for Cheechoo?

I thought Lee was OK. He had to cover for Karlsson, who wanders around the ice a lot. As he gets more accustomed to NHL systems, hopefully Erik will make it easier on his defensive partner.

I would agree with you. I really like Karlsson but he does wander a lot and his confidence is on the verge of cocky. He is often down in the faceoff circle. Not that it is bad, in fact it is refreshing but it is never good for the defense partner, who turns out to be the bridesmaid. Lee wasn't bad at all so far. He needs to be more physical but he has been pretty good positionally and isn't making mistakes.

Not bad and good are totally different. Lee had to do something to get noticed, he hasnt, he has just been meh. Karlsson has shown what he can do and with the assets he has it's better to develope him then someone they dont think can even be a top 6 in The NHL at this point.

N4L wrote:Well, you can't really use that excuse that Karlsson is wreckless. Karlsson is plus 5, Lee minus 2, that's a HUGE difference in 5 games. Karlsson has not been that out of control.

I saw Lee and Karlsson together very few times this pre-season anyways. Lee is not an NHL caliber D man at this point.

MurderOnIce wrote:

N4L wrote:Well, you can't really use that excuse that Karlsson is wreckless. Karlsson is plus 5, Lee minus 2, that's a HUGE difference in 5 games. Karlsson has not been that out of control.

I saw Lee and Karlsson together very few times this pre-season anyways. Lee is not an NHL caliber D man at this point.

I take +/- with a grain of salt most times. You can't tell me there weren't a few times that you weren't saying.. 'What are you thinking?' When Karlsson was part of a group of 4 Senators below the faceoff circle in the opposite end. It is very exicting but dangerous. He is an offensive talent and has great instincts but he is very aggressive without having a great deal of experience. There will be a few odd man rushes this year to go along with some highlight reel passes and spectacular plays. I will take that trade off every time. That is my eval of Karlsson so far. That means that for the time being he needs to play with a responsible partner. That partner is going to get a writeup in the paper about his spectacular play.

I guess we will agree to disagree on Lee. He is going to be a solid 4/5 guy in this league for a long time. He will be unspectacular but solid. I am not holding his draft position against him. That ship has sailed.

N4L wrote:

MurderOnIce wrote:

N4L wrote:Well, you can't really use that excuse that Karlsson is wreckless. Karlsson is plus 5, Lee minus 2, that's a HUGE difference in 5 games. Karlsson has not been that out of control.

I saw Lee and Karlsson together very few times this pre-season anyways. Lee is not an NHL caliber D man at this point.

I take +/- with a grain of salt most times. You can't tell me there weren't a few times that you weren't saying.. 'What are you thinking?' When Karlsson was part of a group of 4 Senators below the faceoff circle in the opposite end. It is very exicting but dangerous. He is an offensive talent and has great instincts but he is very aggressive without having a great deal of experience. There will be a few odd man rushes this year to go along with some highlight reel passes and spectacular plays. I will take that trade off every time. That is my eval of Karlsson so far. That means that for the time being he needs to play with a responsible partner. That partner is going to get a writeup in the paper about his spectacular play.

I guess we will agree to disagree on Lee. He is going to be a solid 4/5 guy in this league for a long time. He will be unspectacular but solid. I am not holding his draft position against him. That ship has sailed.

A 7 goal difference in 5 games is massive though. Plus/minus is the dumbest stat in hockey for the most part but when it's extreme it's telling. You look at Kuba last year, he was the only D man that was not in the red.

I think Lee can be an NHLer, but he has a long, long ways to go. If he was a LH shot he would be in Bingo already.

N4L wrote:Ya, again, you look at the stats column far too much.

MurderOnIce wrote:

N4L wrote:

MurderOnIce wrote:

N4L wrote:Well, you can't really use that excuse that Karlsson is wreckless. Karlsson is plus 5, Lee minus 2, that's a HUGE difference in 5 games. Karlsson has not been that out of control.

I saw Lee and Karlsson together very few times this pre-season anyways. Lee is not an NHL caliber D man at this point.

I take +/- with a grain of salt most times. You can't tell me there weren't a few times that you weren't saying.. 'What are you thinking?' When Karlsson was part of a group of 4 Senators below the faceoff circle in the opposite end. It is very exicting but dangerous. He is an offensive talent and has great instincts but he is very aggressive without having a great deal of experience. There will be a few odd man rushes this year to go along with some highlight reel passes and spectacular plays. I will take that trade off every time. That is my eval of Karlsson so far. That means that for the time being he needs to play with a responsible partner. That partner is going to get a writeup in the paper about his spectacular play.

I guess we will agree to disagree on Lee. He is going to be a solid 4/5 guy in this league for a long time. He will be unspectacular but solid. I am not holding his draft position against him. That ship has sailed.

A 7 goal difference in 5 games is massive though. Plus/minus is the dumbest stat in hockey for the most part but when it's extreme it's telling. You look at Kuba last year, he was the only D man that was not in the red.

I think Lee can be an NHLer, but he has a long, long ways to go. If he was a LH shot he would be in Bingo already.

+/- in the preseason is a dumber stat. It clearly depends on who you are playing with. I am pretty sure Karlsson and partner were playing a lot of minutes with the top lines when they were assembled. Realistically +/- got rolling against Montreal in the 6 goal game and Karlsson got a lot of top line mintues then. I am not sure of the specific game stats so I could be off, but it does make sense.

marakh wrote:

wprager wrote:Kovalev has 2 goals and an assist in 4 games. He's shooting at 50% and you say he'd better step it up? I guess with that shooting percentage, yeah, pile on the shots, man.

Alfie has 8 shots and nothing else in 3 games, and you say he's back.

I don't want to make this sound like an anti-Alfie rant, but of those two I'd say it's #11 that has to step it up, which I fully believe he will do.

CCgotITcovered wrote:Final thoughts before I

-Brian Lee doesn't have a shot in hell of being a regular this season.
-Carkner will get cut by November---still looks great. Nice surprise...
-Karlsson is better than I even imagined.
-Not sold on Leclaire. Still looking forward to the Lehner era...
-Phillips looks in mid-season form---Volchenkov, not so much.
-Definitely not sold on Campoli.
-Shannon (love him) will be replaced on the 1st unit by E.K. within weeks.
-Kovalev better pick it up.
-Cheechoo is good for 40 this year. Book it.
-Foligno too.
-Neil still has to prove he can play. He's part of the glue, but thats a lot of money to pay a 4th liner that can't PK. Keep in mind: Detroit doesn't have one...
-Schubert...well...good luck to him wherever he goes.
-Kelly looks like the odd-man out. We'll see how that works when Winchester is back. Dollar savings makes sense...
-Spezza still has to prove he can do it for a full year (hopefully a few...)

-Alfie is back!

Did you actually watch the games? He wasn't exactly focused...
Alfie played way better than Kovalev man. Stats won't change anything about that.

wprager wrote:

N4L wrote:Ya, again, you look at the stats column far too much.

OK, big shot, to borrow a phrase from Jerry Maguire -- "Help me help you".

Tell me what I should look at to understand "Alfie's back" versus "Kovalev better step it up".

Isn't Kovalev exactly what we all expected? We are not expecting an Alfie effort, but we are expecting some secondary scoring. After Fisher, Regin and Foligno (who are 1-2-3 in scoring, and have played great but, let's face it, the bulk of their scoring came from one game), Kovalev is tied with Spezza with 3 points in 4 games. He's doing exactly what we expected, no?

Spezza is also doing exactly what we expected, plus he had that one back-check where he took the puck away from someone. And because of that we are piling praises on him. Look, I'm not suggesting he hasn't improved his speed/quickness and dedication to defense, but we are holding up that one example of a takeaway on a backcheck like it's a baby taking his first steps, yet Spezza is a veteran player making $7M a season. We should be expecting one such play at least once in every game, and then the praises should start when he's doing it on every 3-4 shifts.

So we are praising Spezza, we are praising Alfie, yet Kovalev better step it up?

Sorry, I guess I'm one of those people you alluded to earlier that will *never get it*.

marakh wrote:

wprager wrote:Kovalev has 2 goals and an assist in 4 games. He's shooting at 50% and you say he'd better step it up? I guess with that shooting percentage, yeah, pile on the shots, man.

Alfie has 8 shots and nothing else in 3 games, and you say he's back.

I don't want to make this sound like an anti-Alfie rant, but of those two I'd say it's #11 that has to step it up, which I fully believe he will do.

CCgotITcovered wrote:Final thoughts before I

-Brian Lee doesn't have a shot in hell of being a regular this season.
-Carkner will get cut by November---still looks great. Nice surprise...
-Karlsson is better than I even imagined.
-Not sold on Leclaire. Still looking forward to the Lehner era...
-Phillips looks in mid-season form---Volchenkov, not so much.
-Definitely not sold on Campoli.
-Shannon (love him) will be replaced on the 1st unit by E.K. within weeks.
-Kovalev better pick it up.
-Cheechoo is good for 40 this year. Book it.
-Foligno too.
-Neil still has to prove he can play. He's part of the glue, but thats a lot of money to pay a 4th liner that can't PK. Keep in mind: Detroit doesn't have one...
-Schubert...well...good luck to him wherever he goes.
-Kelly looks like the odd-man out. We'll see how that works when Winchester is back. Dollar savings makes sense...
-Spezza still has to prove he can do it for a full year (hopefully a few...)

-Alfie is back!

Did you actually watch the games? He wasn't exactly focused...
Alfie played way better than Kovalev man. Stats won't change anything about that.

N4L wrote:

wprager wrote:

N4L wrote:Ya, again, you look at the stats column far too much.

OK, big shot, to borrow a phrase from Jerry Maguire -- "Help me help you".

Tell me what I should look at to understand "Alfie's back" versus "Kovalev better step it up".

Isn't Kovalev exactly what we all expected? We are not expecting an Alfie effort, but we are expecting some secondary scoring. After Fisher, Regin and Foligno (who are 1-2-3 in scoring, and have played great but, let's face it, the bulk of their scoring came from one game), Kovalev is tied with Spezza with 3 points in 4 games. He's doing exactly what we expected, no?

Spezza is also doing exactly what we expected, plus he had that one back-check where he took the puck away from someone. And because of that we are piling praises on him. Look, I'm not suggesting he hasn't improved his speed/quickness and dedication to defense, but we are holding up that one example of a takeaway on a backcheck like it's a baby taking his first steps, yet Spezza is a veteran player making $7M a season. We should be expecting one such play at least once in every game, and then the praises should start when he's doing it on every 3-4 shifts.

So we are praising Spezza, we are praising Alfie, yet Kovalev better step it up?

Sorry, I guess I'm one of those people you alluded to earlier that will *never get it*.

Watch the game. Alfi has been better then Kovy when he has played. You can dump the puck in off the boards and it takes a bounce, goes in... That's all a goal tells me by looking at a stat sheet or a box score.