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Tallon Replaced as Hawks GM by Stan Bowman--UPDATED

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shabbs
SensFan71
Hockeyhero22000
wprager
davetherave
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Cap'n Clutch


Co-Founder
Co-Founder

It's interesting reading your comments DTR. You seem to soft touch the issues that Tallon created in terms of cap concerns and simply say it's business and this happens all the time. Not too long ago when members were discussing the cap situation in Chicago your response was that Tallon isn't worried and you don't worry about the Cap now just spend what you have to spend and things will work themselves out. Now you seem to touch on the issue suggesting maybe there were contract signings that weren't great and the new GM, former capoligist, wasn't to blame.

You then suggest this was a long time coming and post a blog suggesting there was possibly some in-fighting going on. Does this turmoil now suddenly stop even though Tallon is still a part of upper managament?

Is the Cap still nothing to worry about? Is this all just going to work itself out? Should the Hawks continue, as you mentioned, to just spend what you need to now and worry about the Cap later?

SeawaySensFan


Franchise Player
Franchise Player

davetherave wrote:
Will the cap planning have to perfect going forward?

It has to be.

Will the Blackhawks be better on the ice?

They have to be.

Not necessarily. If either of these goes awry, Tallon can be blamed. If all goes swimmingly, Bowman gets the credit. It's foolproof, the fans won't catch on. Cheers

shabbs


Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer

davetherave wrote:There are no 'smoking guns' here...this situation happens in big business all the time.

A General Manager, or similarly empowered executive, re-launches an organization and while making some good decisions, and makes some questionable ones...the organization reaches a certain level of success and the Big Bosses decide a change is needed to go to the 'next level'.

Nothing new.
Next level? Didn't Tallon take the team to the best showing they've had in a LONG LONG time? Didn't he bring them to the next level already? I'm not sold on this being a "next level" move, more of a "next step" move.

I agree, this happens in business and it's clear McD wants to surround himself with "his guys" and Tallon was on the outside. It's nepotism at it's finest, and certainly is the way it goes in the NHL and elsewhere.

SeawaySensFan

SeawaySensFan
Franchise Player
Franchise Player

Tallon got Bowman'd. Plain and simple.

davetherave

davetherave
All-Star
All-Star

Cap'n Clutch wrote:It's interesting reading your comments DTR. You seem to soft touch the issues that Tallon created in terms of cap concerns and simply say it's business and this happens all the time. Not too long ago when members were discussing the cap situation in Chicago your response was that Tallon isn't worried and you don't worry about the Cap now just spend what you have to spend and things will work themselves out. Now you seem to touch on the issue suggesting maybe there were contract signings that weren't great and the new GM, former capoligist, wasn't to blame.

You then suggest this was a long time coming and post a blog suggesting there was possibly some in-fighting going on. Does this turmoil now suddenly stop even though Tallon is still a part of upper managament?

Is the Cap still nothing to worry about? Is this all just going to work itself out? Should the Hawks continue, as you mentioned, to just spend what you need to now and worry about the Cap later?

Clutchie, all good points.

To be absolutely clear--I challenged the assumption by several of our members that Tallon was worried about the cap issues.

It turns out I was right in challenging that assumption.

Based on his actions, Tallon was more focused on putting what he felt was the best possible team on the ice--and, as I said, and I was correct in this observation--and he believed that whatever cap issues arose could be worked out later.

McDonough may not have agreed...in fact it appears from his decision to replace Tallon with Stan Bowman that he did not agree with Tallon's approach in terms of fiscal management.

Yes, the team improved dramatically, and the talent the Hawks have now is impressive.

To go, under Tallon, from 65 points to 104, and bottom feeder to Final Four, in just four seasons?

Outstanding by any standard of hockey measurement.

But the business needs to be managed very carefully, and apparently McDonough felt Stan Bowman would be the best person to do that.

And yes, this is what frequently happens in business, especially on this scale when hundreds of millions of dollars are involved. A General Manager (whether it's a hockey team or a multi-national) gets a certain mandate, and a certain amount of leeway. If they exceed that leeway the owner, the Board of Directors or the CEO may step in...as McDonough did...and make a change...as McDonough did.

Turmoil? Business is all about turmoil. The knives are always out even if the smiles and handshakes are visible.

There's no 'soft touch'. The issues are real issues, and Stan Bowman is, from all indications, well equipped to do the job.

So we'll see what he does.

The so-called 'albatross' contracts? Well, you know all about that in Ottawa. A megacontract's only an 'albatross' when things go wrong...and if the team is losing.

At the moment, the Hawks are a winning team, so fiscal issues are secondary. But you'll hear no guarantees or predictions from me about what happens next year.

Frankly, from what I can see, the Blackhawks are in a very good position...they have way more talent than they can put on the ice. They have assets to trade, and ways to become even better.

And I don't expect Stan Bowman will be a 'soft touch'.

But we'll see. Expectations are higher now.

As they should be.

shabbs

shabbs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer

John McDonough was asked flat out if this decision would have been made had the RFA goof not happened... his answer: "Probably not."

Wow.



Last edited by shabbs on Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:20 am; edited 1 time in total

SeawaySensFan

SeawaySensFan
Franchise Player
Franchise Player

shabbs wrote:John McDonough was asked flat out if this decision would have been made had the RFA good not happened... his answer: "Probably not."

Wow.

Rick Dudley claims that Tallon would not have missed this and that there are many "other hands" dealing with these things. Some have actually said that Stan Bowman himself may have Diddle this RFA stuff up. I doubt this is true, but I also doubt that this is on Tallon.

This was just a convenient excuse to do what was going to be done anyhow.

shabbs

shabbs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer

SeawaySensFan wrote:
shabbs wrote:John McDonough was asked flat out if this decision would have been made had the RFA good not happened... his answer: "Probably not."

Wow.

Rick Dudley claims that Tallon would not have missed this and that there are many "other hands" dealing with these things. Some have actually said that Stan Bowman himself may have Diddle this RFA stuff up. I doubt this is true, but I also doubt that this is on Tallon.

This was just a convenient excuse to do what was going to be done anyhow.
Yeah. But it sure sounds like Tallon is being made the fall guy for that gaffe. McD says "it's all on him" but I read that as him saying "I didn't get rid of Tallon and get my guys in place in time...".

C'est la vie...

Hoags

Hoags
All-Star
All-Star

TSN has the story:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=284740

However, Havlat also wants to clear the air and set the record
straight and has offered his thoughts exclusively to TSN.ca on a number
of issues he observed while in Chicago, starting with his failed
negotiation.

"My negotiation with Chicago was not between Dale
and my agent, it was between Dale and McDonough," Havlat said "Why?
Because McDonough couldn't stand that Dale was so successful and
getting the credit for building the Hawks from a last place team to
making the Conference Final in three short years. Remember, we were
also the youngest team in the NHL last year."
"I was too closely identified with Dale," he continued. "McDonough
knew long ago he was going to fire Dale. He wanted someone he could
claim as his own He wanted to stand up at the convention and claim
credit for signing this guy or that guy."

shabbs

shabbs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer

Hoags wrote:TSN has the story:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=284740

However, Havlat also wants to clear the air and set the record
straight and has offered his thoughts exclusively to TSN.ca on a number
of issues he observed while in Chicago, starting with his failed
negotiation.

"My negotiation with Chicago was not between Dale
and my agent, it was between Dale and McDonough," Havlat said "Why?
Because McDonough couldn't stand that Dale was so successful and
getting the credit for building the Hawks from a last place team to
making the Conference Final in three short years. Remember, we were
also the youngest team in the NHL last year."
"I was too closely identified with Dale," he continued. "McDonough
knew long ago he was going to fire Dale. He wanted someone he could
claim as his own He wanted to stand up at the convention and claim
credit for signing this guy or that guy."
Interesting.

shabbs

shabbs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer

Havlat's Twitter account is here:

http://twitter.com/MartinHavlat

Some funny stuff on there...

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator

Interesting? That's a huge understatement, Shabbs. Wow, this guy may have a larger ego than Burke's head!


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

shabbs

shabbs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer

wprager wrote:Interesting? That's a huge understatement, Shabbs. Wow, this guy may have a larger ego than Burke's head!
Well, I find it interesting because it's also coming from someone who felt he was jilted by the Hawks franchise by not getting the contract offer he wanted... so, you have to take it with a grain of salt at the same time.

SensFan71


All-Star
All-Star

he sounds a bit bitter there, but who can blame him honestly, but he doesn't blame Hossa for this either, nor should he I guess, it was the management that didn't sign Havlat long term and signed Hossa instead. Hope he burns them a bit when Minny plays Chicago this year.

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator

Havlat just burned some bridges. Then, again, he can do that since he may not need to sign another contract again.

Which makes me wonder, since a agent gets 10-15%, what happens if the player fires his agent after one of these monster contracts is signed? There could be a million reasons for firing an agent -- the best reason, for me, would be that the player no-longer requires his services. If Pronger or Hossa fires his agents, can he save that 15%?


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder

Everyone knew Havlat was pissed, but wow.

Sorry, but good for him to say this.

davetherave

davetherave
All-Star
All-Star

SpezDispenser wrote:Everyone knew Havlat was pissed, but wow.

Sorry, but good for him to say this.

Why is it 'good for him to say this'?

Havlat had one good year out of the three he was signed for.

Yes, he had injuries...but he was very well compensated for his time in Chicago.

Havlat had an excellent season...as he should have, paid well as he was.

Management wanted to offer Martin a one-year deal...the story is that there were two reasons...one being the injury factor, and one being the salary cap factor.

Havlat chose to go with Minnesota.

Sorry, but Havlat got his money, so IMHO he should move on. He gains nothing from dissing Hawks management.



Last edited by davetherave on Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator

davetherave wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:Everyone knew Havlat was pissed, but wow.

Sorry, but good for him to say this.

Why is it 'good for him to say this'?

Havlat had one good year out of the three he was signed for.

Yes, he had injuries...but he was very well compensated for his time in Chicago.

Havlat had an excellent season...as he should have, paid well as he was.

Management wanted to offer Martin a one-year deal...the story is that there were two reasons...one being the injury factor, and one being the salary cap factor.

Havlat chose to go with Minnesota.

Sorry, but Havlat got his money, so IMHO he should move on. He gains nothing from dissing Hawks management.

Remember when I was saying how the Hawks were probably regretting signing him for that much, and you replied that they were actually very happy with Marty, and how they would want to re-sign him. Now you're saying he had one good year of the three?


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

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