Getting ridiculous

Well, during my 2 day absence, I was thinking about this whole Mezaros signing thing, and quite frankly, I'm getting more and more annoyed as this drags on. At what point do you just say, "Forget it" and move on in another direction?

Cronenbergfan wrote:Well, during my 2 day absence, I was thinking about this whole Mezaros signing thing, and quite frankly, I'm getting more and more annoyed as this drags on. At what point do you just say, "Forget it" and move on in another direction?

Well, with Schybert *and* Nycholat both under contract we have enough bodies at both forward and D to round out a 21 man roster. Our D will be a little lacking in the "puck-mover" department, but with the top-line still intact and young guys like Foligno and Bass ready to make an impression I think we will still be competitive.

After that (the start of the season) there is a definitely deadline, but isn't it something like January 1st? If he doesn't sign by then then he's no eligible to play this year, which would be a shame, but would leave us plenty of cap space for March.

That said, though, this whole situation *may* drive a wedge between the Sens and Meszaros that will never be fixed.

wprager wrote:

Cronenbergfan wrote:Well, during my 2 day absence, I was thinking about this whole Mezaros signing thing, and quite frankly, I'm getting more and more annoyed as this drags on. At what point do you just say, "Forget it" and move on in another direction?

Well, with Schybert *and* Nycholat both under contract we have enough bodies at both forward and D to round out a 21 man roster. Our D will be a little lacking in the "puck-mover" department, but with the top-line still intact and young guys like Foligno and Bass ready to make an impression I think we will still be competitive.

After that (the start of the season) there is a definitely deadline, but isn't it something like January 1st? If he doesn't sign by then then he's no eligible to play this year, which would be a shame, but would leave us plenty of cap space for March.

That said, though, this whole situation *may* drive a wedge between the Sens and Meszaros that will never be fixed.

Very good points dude. I agree that if things should go that Far, I think it's safe to say that whatever relationship between Ottawa management and Mezaros will SURELY be soured beyond repair.

wow! I never considered just how much Cap room that would leave Murray to play with though if he held out longer than Jan 1st?! *scratching chin* mmmm...interesting...

Cronenbergfan wrote:
Very good points dude. I agree that if things should go that Far, I think it's safe to say that whatever relationship between Ottawa management and Mezaros will SURELY be soured beyond repair.

wow! I never considered just how much Cap room that would leave Murray to play with though if he held out longer than Jan 1st?! *scratching chin* mmmm...interesting...

Pfft. Nah...the relationship will be fine. He won't sit out. There are 2 deals on the table IMO (and I heard you wrote something about this, so I'll check it out).

1.1 year, 2.8 million (Asquared pointed this one out). The reason is for Mez to prove that he's a 4 X 6 guy. A big chunk of our payroll guy. If he has an awesome year, I could eat crow and get into the 4.5 X 5 type contracts, so he wins a little extra $$. If he sucks, he'll still get the same 1 year contract because of his potential. It's great for him, good for us.

2.2 years, 2.8 million a year. This one makes the most sense to me. Guaranteed money, re-negotiate in 2 years, time for Mez to show what he can do and move his way towards a 5 million per contract. Great for us, good for him.

504Heater wrote:

Cronenbergfan wrote:
Very good points dude. I agree that if things should go that Far, I think it's safe to say that whatever relationship between Ottawa management and Mezaros will SURELY be soured beyond repair.

wow! I never considered just how much Cap room that would leave Murray to play with though if he held out longer than Jan 1st?! *scratching chin* mmmm...interesting...

Pfft. Nah...the relationship will be fine. He won't sit out. There are 2 deals on the table IMO (and I heard you wrote something about this, so I'll check it out).

1.1 year, 2.8 million (Asquared pointed this one out). The reason is for Mez to prove that he's a 4 X 6 guy. A big chunk of our payroll guy. If he has an awesome year, I could eat crow and get into the 4.5 X 5 type contracts, so he wins a little extra $$. If he sucks, he'll still get the same 1 year contract because of his potential. It's great for him, good for us.

2.2 years, 2.8 million a year. This one makes the most sense to me. Guaranteed money, re-negotiate in 2 years, time for Mez to show what he can do and move his way towards a 5 million per contract. Great for us, good for him.

When does Meszaros *officially* become a holdout? When rookie camp starts? When the regular camp starts? Earlier?

How many holdouts have we had on this team? Yashin (a few times). Havlat. Anyone else?

Hossa was on his way to a holdout just like Meszaros is now, and look what happened to him. The Sens organization has been very, very strict with this. You've got to show that you *want* to be on this team; unless you've been with us for a decade -- then we'll cut you some slack. And even there, after the Redden fiasco I wonder if even that will change?

Bottom line is I don't think this can go much further without irreparably harm to the relationship. Meszaros may find himself being signed and traded a la Hossa for Heatley.

wprager wrote:

504Heater wrote:

Cronenbergfan wrote:
Very good points dude. I agree that if things should go that Far, I think it's safe to say that whatever relationship between Ottawa management and Mezaros will SURELY be soured beyond repair.

wow! I never considered just how much Cap room that would leave Murray to play with though if he held out longer than Jan 1st?! *scratching chin* mmmm...interesting...

Pfft. Nah...the relationship will be fine. He won't sit out. There are 2 deals on the table IMO (and I heard you wrote something about this, so I'll check it out).

1.1 year, 2.8 million (Asquared pointed this one out). The reason is for Mez to prove that he's a 4 X 6 guy. A big chunk of our payroll guy. If he has an awesome year, I could eat crow and get into the 4.5 X 5 type contracts, so he wins a little extra $$. If he sucks, he'll still get the same 1 year contract because of his potential. It's great for him, good for us.

2.2 years, 2.8 million a year. This one makes the most sense to me. Guaranteed money, re-negotiate in 2 years, time for Mez to show what he can do and move his way towards a 5 million per contract. Great for us, good for him.

When does Meszaros *officially* become a holdout? When rookie camp starts? When the regular camp starts? Earlier?

How many holdouts have we had on this team? Yashin (a few times). Havlat. Anyone else?

Hossa was on his way to a holdout just like Meszaros is now, and look what happened to him. The Sens organization has been very, very strict with this. You've got to show that you *want* to be on this team; unless you've been with us for a decade -- then we'll cut you some slack. And even there, after the Redden fiasco I wonder if even that will change?

Bottom line is I don't think this can go much further without irreparably harm to the relationship. Meszaros may find himself being signed and traded a la Hossa for Heatley.

The 1st second he misses of training camp and he's a holdout to me. He can find himself in deep trouble if he hasn't signed something by then.

I would argue that he may have already done some damage. Think of it this way - Murray has been sitting waiting for him to make a decision, with the two offers on the table. He can't fully maneuver without knowing what Mez is going to do. Even if Mez takes one of the offers the day before training camp, how many opportunities has Murray had to pass up? In effect, Mez is currently holding Murray and the rest of the team back.

The flip side is this - Mez has to realize that Murray isn't going to budge. He didn't with Kelly, nor with Vermette. Prior GMs didn't with established stars (Hossa, Yashin, etc). This is the Senators way - financial prudence, team before individuals, and long-term before short-term. Mez needs to realize that if he doesn't want to take the deal (dumb move, IMHO) then he can choose to go to Russia, but that would be career suicide, or he can request a trade. The problem with this is that it puts Murray in the driver's seat, because other than salary (which would likely be signed before a trade,) Mez would have little control over destination, so he could end up in Atlanta (ugh).

So in effect, the option for Mez is Ottawa (2.8M now, and possible $5M per season thereafter) or Russia ($4-5M per season with no guarantee and no return). [or Atlanta...]

Time to fish or cut bait. The team is waiting...

EDIT: interesting what the expression "s*** or get off the pot" gets changed to ... just doesn't work after being censored...

Acrobat wrote:I would argue that he may have already done some damage. Think of it this way - Murray has been sitting waiting for him to make a decision, with the two offers on the table. He can't fully maneuver without knowing what Mez is going to do. Even if Mez takes one of the offers the day before training camp, how many opportunities has Murray had to pass up? In effect, Mez is currently holding Murray and the rest of the team back.

The flip side is this - Mez has to realize that Murray isn't going to budge. He didn't with Kelly, nor with Vermette. Prior GMs didn't with established stars (Hossa, Yashin, etc). This is the Senators way - financial prudence, team before individuals, and long-term before short-term. Mez needs to realize that if he doesn't want to take the deal (dumb move, IMHO) then he can choose to go to Russia, but that would be career suicide, or he can request a trade. The problem with this is that it puts Murray in the driver's seat, because other than salary (which would likely be signed before a trade,) Mez would have little control over destination, so he could end up in Atlanta (ugh).

So in effect, the option for Mez is Ottawa (2.8M now, and possible $5M per season thereafter) or Russia ($4-5M per season with no guarantee and no return). [or Atlanta...]

Time to fish or cut bait. The team is waiting...

EDIT: interesting what the expression "s*** or get off the pot" gets changed to ... just doesn't work after being censored...

Well, the other flip side is that Murray could have and should have given him a deadline by which to get off that pot. So if some potential deals have been passed up because of this, that's a mental note for next time.

Did Vancouver have to put away $20M (and $10M cap-space) into some sort of virtual escrow for Sundin? I bet they had to, otherwise imagine the fallout if Sundin finally says "Yeah, alright, whatever" and they had used up the space.

Well since Murray and Mez have had no dorect contact, I don't see the relationship souring at all. This is between Mez's agent and Murray. Murray has his number and so does the agent, they are currently far apart, but I'm pretty sure this will get done just before camp. Regardless, Mez will NOT be going to Russia, that is a guarantee and now especially since Russia is on the verge of a war, he'd be crazy to go there, not too mention, it would be VERY detrimental to his NHL career.

jamvan wrote:Well since Murray and Mez have had no dorect contact, I don't see the relationship souring at all. This is between Mez's agent and Murray. Murray has his number and so does the agent, they are currently far apart, but I'm pretty sure this will get done just before camp. Regardless, Mez will NOT be going to Russia, that is a guarantee and now especially since Russia is on the verge of a war, he'd be crazy to go there, not too mention, it would be VERY detrimental to his NHL career.

I agree. Mesz will come to his senses and sign.

I am hopeful that Mezie comes to his senses, but I suppose we should or could all think of plan B or Plan C alternatives.

Schubert and Nycholat or Bell could step in, but as it has been mentioned, that would give us a pretty scary D that I for one would NOT be comfortable nor too confident with.

Cronenbergfan wrote:I am hopeful that Mezie comes to his senses, but I suppose we should or could all think of plan B or Plan C alternatives.

Schubert and Nycholat or Bell could step in, but as it has been mentioned, that would give us a pretty scary D that I for one would NOT be comfortable nor too confident with.

Really, though? Potential-wise, sure, Meszaros is a first rounder with great skill. Performance-wise, though, he has been a C the last couple of years. For the short-term, I think that either Nycholat or Schubert can give us very close to what Meszaros brought last year. Having Redden *off* the blue line and Lee hopefully *not* suffering any sophomore slump, and Smith back there instead of Richardson, the defense should be better than it was last year (which, admittedly, was not very good).

Yes, Meszaros (in place of Schubert, Nycholat or Bell) would make it better, but not so much so as to make or break this season.

I tend to agree but I get the sense that Mesz will have a much better year under Hartsburg and with increased ice time and being paired with Smith he could be that Offensive force we need. As for Lee I'd be a little surprised if he had a slump considering he didn't play a lot of games with the big club so I would see a potential slump coming in 09/10 if one came at all. By then we'd probably have Karlsson starting and Mesz should be a lot stronger by then as well.

Cap'n' Clutch wrote:I tend to agree but I get the sense that Mesz will have a much better year under Hartsburg and with increased ice time and being paired with Smith he could be that Offensive force we need. As for Lee I'd be a little surprised if he had a slump considering he didn't play a lot of games with the big club so I would see a potential slump coming in 09/10 if one came at all. By then we'd probably have Karlsson starting and Mesz should be a lot stronger by then as well.

I agree (and we all share the same hope, for sure). But the same could be said for Nycholat being paired up with Smith. I was mainly making two points:
1. Our defence will be stronger this year than last.
2. The difference between Meszaros and Nycholat/Schubert *may not be* all that great this year (certainly not enough to make the difference between making and missing the playoffs).

Are we all sure he can go to Russia? There are really strict rules between the two leagues now, and Mez is property of the Sens. I don't think Russia is an option for Mez.