Jacques Demers Gives The Habs an Extreme Makeover

shabbs wrote:I found a comment in the article that did the math as well, here it is:

Tanguay (4.5) - Lecavalier (6.875)- Kovalev (4.5)
D'agostini (.750) - Antropov (4) - St. Louis (5.250)
Latendresse (1.5) - Lapierre (.750) - Neil (2.5)
Laraque (1.5) - Metropolit (1) - Laperriere (1.5)

Markov (5.750) - Komisarek (4.5)
Hamrlik (5.5) - Beauchemin (4)
Havelid (2.5) - Leopold (2.5)

Price (2.2)
Denis (.750)

Total: 62M

I didn't check his math or numbers... he gave Neil 2.5M which we know now is too high.

Lecavalier's is too low.

So I guess we can agree that it would be too much.... So there ya go.

Well, now, at least we have all of you talking.



By the way, Mr Demers invites you to respond to his propositions, and being the avid and astute hockey observers you are, this is IMHO a golden opportunity. Link here:

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/273868.html#talkbacks

As for me, I find all of your thoughts very intriguing...and want to do some math of my own in response.

Something that DOES disappoint me though, is that NONE of you have looked at Demers' hypothesis for what it is...or shall we say, what it very logically might be.

Demers, being a consultant to RDS (who have the exclusive/primary TV broadcast rights to Canadiens games) also has very good lines of communication with the Montreal Canadiens organization.

Does it not occur to you that Demers might be floating some 'trial balloons' to get a feel from the public for the moves the Canadiens might considering going forward?

This kind of Internet community-based 'marketing research' is common practice nowadays.

After all, the Canadiens are a sports and entertainment product being sold to a consumer base.

What better way to them to get a feel from the public for changes that may be coming to the product?

I watched a very good interview with Georges Laraque last night on RDS' 'L'Antichambre'. He was grilled for the better part of an hour by the top francophone hockey journalists/commentators in Montreal, including Francois Gagnon, Alain Crete and former Nordiques coach Michel Bergeron...none of whom by the way, are Habcentrists...they are some of the BleuBlancRouge's harshest critics.

Under some relentless questioning, Laraque finally admitted one of the reasons Carbonneau got fired was because he refused to utilize Steve Begin--one of the most effective agitators on the roster--finally lobliging Gainey to trade Begin for a pittance.

Laraque also suggested the team would be remodeled heavily next year to place a higher emphasis on GRIT.

Now, take a look at the roster Demers proposes again.

It resembles more closely a Demers team, or more precisely a Gainey team of the mid-late 80s...than the collection of divas who suited up for Carbonneau.

One 'skill line', the #1 line as it were.

2nd line, mixture of skill, size and toughness.

3rd and 4th lines, heavy on toughness and grind.

And Chris Neil AND Ian Laperriere on the same team with BGL? That's a Gang Of Ouch.

Defense...workmanlike AND physical. Beauchemin, Leopold and Havelid are very reliable defensemen. Beauchemin would probably become the Number Two assuming Markov is Number One.

Goal, assumes Carey Price is more like Steve Penney than Patrick Roy...who were part of the 1985-86 team with Bob Gainey...and who won the Stanley Cup.

Now, it is possible to assemble these players under the salary cap?

Remember that right off the bat, Bob Gainey has but $23MM committed for 2009-10, giving him AT LEAST $27MM to spend.

His committment, given the current situation, goes down to $18MM in 2010-11.

So Gainey--or whoever the GM might be--has enormous flexibility.

But that's for another post.

Finally, NO comments about Demers' choice of the bilingual Stanley Cup winnig coach and fabled disciplinarian Bob Hartley--who also now happens to be a commentator for RDS?

Put aside your anti-Hab bias for a moment...and consider this a challenge for your excellent hockey minds...after all, isn't this the site where "The Fans Are GM"?



Thanks everyone, and looking forward to another exciting thread.

GM Hockey members are the best!

davetherave wrote:Now, take a look at the roster Demers proposes again.

It resembles more closely a Demers team, or more precisely a Gainey team of the mid-late 80s...than the collection of divas who suited up for Carbonneau.

One 'skill line', the #1 line as it were.

2nd line, mixture of skill, size and toughness.

3rd and 4th lines, heavy on toughness and grind.

And Chris Neil AND Ian Laperriere on the same team with BGL? That's a Gang Of Ouch.

Defense...workmanlike AND physical. Beauchemin, Leopold and Havelid are very reliable defensemen. Beauchemin would probably become the Number Two assuming Markov is Number One.

Goal, assumes Carey Price is more like Steve Penney than Patrick Roy...who were part of the 1985-86 team with Bob Gainey...and who won the Stanley Cup.

Now, it is possible to assemble these players under the salary cap?

Remember that right off the bat, Bob Gainey has but $23MM committed for 2009-10, giving him AT LEAST $27MM to spend.

His committment, given the current situation, goes down to $18MM in 2010-11.

So Gainey--or whoever the GM might be--has enormous flexibility.

But that's for another post.

Finally, NO comments about Demers' choice of the bilingual Stanley Cup winnig coach and fabled disciplinarian Bob Hartley--who also now happens to be a commentator for RDS?

Put aside your anti-Hab bias for a moment...and consider this a challenge for your excellent hockey minds...after all, isn't this the site where "The Fans Are GM"?

^Missed this post.

I think the point most of us are trying to make is that, regardless of whether or not this looks like a good team on paper (Lord knows the Habs could use a more physical big-man than Latendresse), when you don't take into consideration either the salary cap or making a fair trade, it's kind of useless.

As an extremely exaggerated example, what say you to trading Shean Donovan for Crosby and Malkin, the rights to Chris Neil for Ovechkin and Brendan Bell for Lidstrom and Datsyuk?

Ovechkin - Datsyuk - Malkin
Heatley - Crosby - Foligno
Alfredsson - Spezza - Shannon
Fisher - Regin - Ruutu

Lidstrom - Phillips
Kuba - Volchenkov
Campoli - Smith

Leclaire
Elliott
Auld

Obviously this team is unbelievable on paper. But not only does the salary cap not work, but the trades aren't even remotely close to fair.

Demers' proposal is barely enough for Lecavalier, if that. You think Tampa is also going to move a guy in St. Louis at his salary when he's showing that kind of chemistry with Stamkos?

That said, the Habs acquiring Vinny on his own isn't so far-fetched.

asq2 wrote:[^Missed this post.

I think the point most of us are trying to make is that, regardless of whether or not this looks like a good team on paper, when you don't take into consideration either the salary cap or making a fair trade, it's kind of useless.

Demers' proposal is barely enough for Lecavalier, if that. You think Tampa is also going to move a guy in St. Louis at his salary when he's showing that kind of chemistry with Stamkos?

Missed the point as well...

I'm not advocating what Demers is saying, I'm providing it for purposes of discussion.

If you take the time to read the original (link provided in the first post), you'll see Demers makes it quite clear his outline is a starting point for further elaboration of the ideas proposed, and invites the readers to e-mail him their comments...as Demers is bilingual, in English or French would be, one expects, equally suitable.

I've also provided the link to Demers' blog--in my original post--so you can discuss this directly with him if you are so inclined.

You can also e-mail him at Corus Sports.
http://www.corussports.com/
http://www.corussports.com/radio/contacts.php?email=Y29tbWVudGFpcmVz

I am sure you in particular, with your extensive knowledge and skeptical mind, would find your dialogue with Demers a special experience.

Given your statements about 'chemistry' and player trade value, and the fact that Demers actually coached Lecavalier, I would be interested to know how he responds to your point of view.

IMHO what is of interest--and NO ONE has talked about this...that Demers is floating a series of hypotheses based on a complete makeover of the Montreal Canadiens in terms of the TYPE of players they should have. Quite a radical shift, and one whose concept appears to be based on a previously successful model.

The Montreal situation would seem to be one of several NHL teams (previously mentioned on these threads) considering a significant re-tooling going forward.

cool)

Well I would say that, first of all, his trades need to be a bit more realistic in order to be seriously discussed.

Second, that if he is making over the team, I'm surprised by the directions it's taking. Letting Koivu and Higgins go but keeping Kovalev and adding Antropov?

That said, I do have a lot of respect for Demers, and quite a bit of what he suggests is reasonable and rational. Just take Halak and St. Louis out of the deal, and add Montreal's first rounder or a Ryan McDonagh.

Kovalev should stay in MTL, I think people who don't follow the Habs enough see a lazy player in Kovalev, when in fact the Kostitsyns abandonned him, he was not pleased with the way the youngers (Price, Sergei, OByrne etc) acted off the ice etc. and when he was put with Koivu and Tanguay they just dominated the opposition, something like 13 points in 6 games.
I would personnaly keep Kovalev and give him the C, and get rid of the Kostitsyns and all the young immatures.
It's also a shame that Price is playing instead of Halak. That alone should be a reason to fire Gainey IMO.

Kovalev can't be faulted for the actions of the young'uns, but he was quite inconsistent judging from the 30 or 40 Habs games I saw last season.

As always, DTR's insightfulness and accuity never ceases to amaze me.

My media-trained background is screaming that this is a sense a new marketing tactic that is becoming widely popular, although in this particular case it's not EXACT but very close: in that VIRAL marketing.
You flood the airwaves and/or internet and television with ONE thought and let people do what they do best: shoot their mouths and thoughts off.

This is a VERY brilliant way, as DTR already pointed out, for the Habs org to put out some blatant 'feelers' out there and get a general sense of what La Belle Province and habs fans all over would react to said propositions. In a way, it's brilliant, but in another it's dangerous because with this scenario out there, Gainey, or the potential NEW GM, HAS to make a splash; how big or small is anyone's guess and quite frankly, with the plethora of UFA's on the Habs roster, serious moves/changes were logically forthcoming but still, this could potentially set the bar for 'expected change', if you will, a couple of notches higher.

I'm sure if Jacques Demers could read this, he'd be tickled pink at the response.

Is that a burn SSF? LOL

Sure the total changes that Demers suggest are exagerated, and not overly realistic.

But you guys did the math, it's not like were talking 80 million dollar cap hit. If you tinkered with his proposed changes, (ie. forget St. Louis, he's not going anywhere, and don't keep Kovalev, I think he's outlived his usefulness in MTL).

Some variation of his proposal could work. Whether it is realistic, that's another ball game altogether.

I am still of the belief that Lecavalier is heading north, at some point. At some point he'll realize he is spinning his wheels on a team that is going nowhere. He's a proud Canadian, I am sure the lure of playing in Canada has to be nipping at him somewhat.

People make a big deal over the media hype in MTL. But Lecav would be an absolute media god in that market, no matter what he does. He strikes me as the hardworking lunchpail type of player. To boot, he's French. Holy match made in heaven.

Ultimately the point of Demers' article, IMO, is to stress that Montreal needs to get bigger, tougher and less fanciness. In a hurry. We will see massive changes this summer, one of which might be the departure of Bob Gainey.

I, for one, am very curious about what Montreal AND Toronto will look like come October.

Here's a footnote of interest...

In a current poll on RDS.ca, the majority francophone Quebec based readership were asked to vote on the UFAs the Habs should seek in the offseason.

Almost 14000 readers responded (the poll prevents double voting)...the results may surprise some.

Parmi les joueurs autonomes sans compensation de premier plan disponibles le 1er juillet, lequel aimeriez-vous voir à Montréal?

Résultats

Marian Gaborik (10%)

Jay Bouwmeester (33%)

Marian Hossa (11%)

Mike Cammalleri (7%)

Les frères Sedin (39%)

Nombre de participants : 13296 --- The lead article on RDS.ca today also suggested that Mike Komisarek's UFA value has dropped and that he would be worth no more than $5MM, a figure quoted by Sports Illustrated's Michael Farber after speaking with an unnamed NHL assistant GM.

As exciting and good as Marian Gaborik is, I'd avoid giving him big $.

Holy Dung, if anyone actually wanted to play there, Montreal could go on a shopping/trading spree.

Mind you, we all know how that works out, hey TB?

but you could build a team that way but use some intelligence unlike TB their defence was th most inexperienced 6 i have ever seen mezzeros was one of the leaders in games played