Small Trade! (Rumour no more)

All good points Acrobat. If I were a betting man, I would say that goalie is Brian Elliot.

After he got to Bingo and sucked for the first half, his last 35 games he posted a .935 save %. He's a really, really technically sound goalie who's big and loves to make the most amazingly acrobatic saves. His angles need work (apparently) otherwise he'd be a Sen to start the season and he'd be looking to usurp Gerber by Janurary.

I think if Gerber sucks, Auld can't help, Elliot's not ready (or doesn't perform) then BM will make a move to get a stop gap, but for now, I doubt we make a move for Khabby.

I hate that logic, because I feel this team could go very deep with a great tender, but I hope the guys support Gerber, Auld and Elliot the way they supported Ray when our system was implimented mid-Finals year.

Hartsburg is the big ticket UFA for me. He either performs, or we're franking dead. System, system, system! Make a mistake, learn from it, move on, but stay inside his system. Trust him like you trusted Murray. Organization and a 5 man unit coming back to retieve the puck.

System!

Acrobat wrote:Sorry for the excess verbage above...
got carried away...

Oh oh. Are we supposed to apologize every time we write too much? Because...yeah...I do it all the time. :lol!:

Yikes, Emery sucked like a vacuum in his first start. Lost 6-5 in OT, letting in all 6 goals.

504Heater wrote:All good points Acrobat. If I were a betting man, I would say that goalie is Brian Elliot.

After he got to Bingo and sucked for the first half, his last 35 games he posted a .935 save %. He's a really, really techincally sound goalie who's big and loves to make the most amazingly acrobatic saves. His angles need work (apparently) otherwise he'd be a Sen to start the season and he'd be looking to usurp Gerber by Janurary.

I think if Gerber sucks, Auld can't help, Elliot's not ready (or doesn't perform) then BM will make a move to get a stop gap, but for now, I doubt we make a move for Khabby.

I hate that logic, because I feel this team could go very deep with a great tender, but I hope the guys support Gerber, Auld and Elliot the way they supported Ray when our system was implimented mid-Finals year.

Hartsburg is the big ticket UFA for me. He either performs, or we're franking dead. System, system, system! Make a mistake, learn from it, move on, but stay inside his system. Trust him like you trusted Murray. Organization and a 5 man unit coming back to retieve the puck.

System!

Thanks for actually reading it all. I'll keep it shorter next time.

I agree - it comes down to two things:

1. Support the goalie.
2. Buy what the coach is selling.

Either doesn't happen, and they're done.

I can see them either 1 or 2 in the division and thus 1/2/4/5 in the conference, if they play to potential. If not, we get a top-ten draft pick.

Just read now. Wow, great move by Murray.

"Mr. Melnyk, I just saved you $800K. Just thought you might want to know. Later, Gene."

Of course he was also the guy who signed him to the one-way :D

Acrobat wrote:
Thanks for actually reading it all. I'll keep it shorter next time.

I agree - it comes down to two things:

1. Support the goalie.
2. Buy what the coach is selling.

Either doesn't happen, and they're done.

I can see them either 1 or 2 in the division and thus 1/2/4/5 in the conference, if they play to potential. If not, we get a top-ten draft pick.

Are you kidding, I read everything in here LOL (seriously). I agree, buy into the system or we're dead (and the guys who don't buy in are looking at a trade).

wprager wrote:Just read now. Wow, great move by Murray.

"Mr. Melnyk, I just saved you $800K. Just thought you might want to know. Later, Gene."

Of course he was also the guy who signed him to the one-way :D

Wasn't that Muck-a-doodle-doo?

504Heater wrote:

wprager wrote:Just read now. Wow, great move by Murray.

"Mr. Melnyk, I just saved you $800K. Just thought you might want to know. Later, Gene."

Of course he was also the guy who signed him to the one-way :D

Wasn't that Muck-a-doodle-doo?

Muckler was the one who signed Nycholat to that contract.

504Heater wrote:If I were a betting man, I would say that goalie is Brian Elliot.

After he got to Bingo and sucked for the first half, his last 35 games he posted a .935 save %. He's a really, really technically sound goalie who's big and loves to make the most amazingly acrobatic saves. His angles need work (apparently) otherwise he'd be a Sen to start the season and he'd be looking to usurp Gerber by Janurary.

I have had to do a fair bit of learning about goalies and goaltending because my 10-yr old son has taken up goaltending (much to my dismay...why do some people take pleasure in stopping frozen pieces of rubber with their body parts? Especially their head?)

A year ago, after watching pre-season games where both Elliot and Price were in, the one thing I can say is that both are very mobile, and both move exceptionally well. I have heard a lot of people say that Elliot has the potential to be like Price; I don't doubt it. His speed across the net, his vision of the play, his anticipation were all excellent. I didn't see a significant drop-off (there was a slight difference, but it was small) when you compared Elliot to Price - keep in mind that when I saw Price up close, it was just as he was breaking in to the NHL, though. What I found interesting was that Elliot actually seemed a bit more confident when he was handling the puck. He did have a few miscues with misplaying angles and such, but nothing major. I didn't see anything acrobatic however - it was all very technical, very precise, very "by the book" (my son has done camps with Eli Wilson, and it was exactly the way Wilson teaches - almost no improvisation at all; kind of freaky actually, like watching a "how-to" video)

All in all, to my inexperienced eye, I'd have to say that Elliot does look like he has the potential. It comes down to how much Eli can mold that raw talent. But you are right, we may already have our top ten (or top five) goalie.

Acrobat wrote:But at what point do you have to step back and give some of the kids a chance to step up as well? If we do that, then who will take over when all the "character guys" finish up and become UFAs? And more importantly, how long before the kids become disgruntled and stop pushing?

Listen we aren't talking about a bottom 6 position with the potential to move up to the top 6. The only position we have available on this team for forwards is top 6 position. If these kids can't handle the duties of a top 6 position, then what? We start scrambling to find a solution, line juggling, talking trade, signing stop-gap UFAs that might be left over? Glen Murray is a known quantity in the NHL. If he can get back to where he used to be a couple of years ago, or even if he can just put last year behind him, that's a much better option.

Even if he goes back to the 25+ goal/50 point player on the top line, that's perfect, because no we can move Alfredsson down to the second line and create TWO dyanmic lines of scoring. Ideally, he stays healthy and goes back to the 65-80 point/35+ goal player he was a couple of years ago and we're in the money.

All I'm saying is if the risk of the players is the same for different reasons (injury risk vs inexperience), then wouldn't it make sense to take a chance on Glen Murray considering we know what to expect for performance?

Acrobat wrote:I have had to do a fair bit of learning about goalies and goaltending because my 10-yr old son has taken up goaltending (much to my dismay...why do some people take pleasure in stopping frozen pieces of rubber with their body parts? Especially their head?)

A year ago, after watching pre-season games where both Elliot and Price were in, the one thing I can say is that both are very mobile, and both move exceptionally well. I have heard a lot of people say that Elliot has the potential to be like Price; I don't doubt it. His speed across the net, his vision of the play, his anticipation were all excellent. I didn't see a significant drop-off (there was a slight difference, but it was small) when you compared Elliot to Price - keep in mind that when I saw Price up close, it was just as he was breaking in to the NHL, though. What I found interesting was that Elliot actually seemed a bit more confident when he was handling the puck. He did have a few miscues with misplaying angles and such, but nothing major. I didn't see anything acrobatic however - it was all very technical, very precise, very "by the book" (my son has done camps with Eli Wilson, and it was exactly the way Wilson teaches - almost no improvisation at all; kind of freaky actually, like watching a "how-to" video)

All in all, to my inexperienced eye, I'd have to say that Elliot does look like he has the potential. It comes down to how much Eli can mold that raw talent. But you are right, we may already have our top ten (or top five) goalie.

I just look back to the Atlanta game that Elliott played and watch just how spectacular he was. He has the dedication, good attitude and hard working mentality to achieve a great level of play in the NHL, and the only way I see him failing is via some unforeseen cataclysmic situation.

jamvan wrote:I heard that Murray may get an invite to Camp. Jason York was saying it on the Team 1200 and also said that if he got a chance to play with Spezza he would definitely score a couple of goals.

Hmmm. That's intriguing. What was the context of the conversation? Was it, "It would be neat if G. Murray got an invite because...," or "I have heard from reliable sources that B. Murray has invited / plans to invite G. Murray to camp..."? I'm just curious about how serious this rumour seems to be.

PS: writing G. Murray and B. Murray is annoying.

Acrobat wrote:I really wonder if he adds that much more that what we already have. Couldn't we spend the $1.5-2.5M somewhere better (say, perhaps, Gerber, Neil, and a pick for Khabibulin, Barker, and a first?)

As much as I don't think Khabibulin is all that much better, he is in a contract year, so he has the incentive to kick it up a notch, whereas Gerber may not be able to do so.

I'm not sure I follow. Khabby and Gerber are both in contract years, and you say yourself that the talent difference between the two is marginal... so how will the fact that it's a contract year motivate one mediocre goalie when it won't the other? Why doesn't the logic apply to both equally?

Personally, I want nothing to do with Khabby and his enormous price tag. Cut it in half and we'll talk. Until then, it's a non-starter in my mind.

rooneypoo wrote:

Acrobat wrote:I really wonder if he adds that much more that what we already have. Couldn't we spend the $1.5-2.5M somewhere better (say, perhaps, Gerber, Neil, and a pick for Khabibulin, Barker, and a first?)

As much as I don't think Khabibulin is all that much better, he is in a contract year, so he has the incentive to kick it up a notch, whereas Gerber may not be able to do so.

I'm not sure I follow. Khabby and Gerber are both in contract years, and you say yourself that the talent difference between the two is marginal... so how will the fact that it's a contract year motivate one mediocre goalie when it won't the other? Why doesn't the logic apply to both equally?

Personally, I want nothing to do with Khabby and his enormous price tag. Cut it in half and we'll talk. Until then, it's a non-starter in my mind.

Those guys don't use the word sources. LOL! Anyway, he said he would be a good fit and could get an invite, but it depends on his health.

Acrobat wrote:I guess I just figure that instead of paying Murray the $2M (plus or minus), give the kids a chance - and we have enough that are chomping at the bit to try for that spot. Then take the money and upgrade the goalie and defence.

Let Hartsburgh work his magic with the forwards and defense (like we all expect him to) and we should have no probs keeping the shots to the outside, but jut in case, make sure that the goalie is motivated. I don't see Gerber as motivated as Khabibulin. And with Auld/Elliot at his heels, he'll know that he has no room to slack off.

It's a good point here about the kids and the crowding up front. We'd have to send most of our young guys down, or make a number of moves to create roster space for them.

Still confused about why Khabby is more motivated than Gerber, tho'. From where I stand, Gerber's NHL career depends on him putting up good numbers this year: if he flops again, no one may ever sign him again and his NHL career will be over. Khabby, on the other hand, will get a shot with someone, even if the contract is shorter and for much less money that he's used to. To me, there's more at stake this year for Gerber than perhaps any other goalie in the NHL.

rooneypoo wrote:I'm not sure I follow. Khabby and Gerber are both in contract years, and you say yourself that the talent difference between the two is marginal... so how will the fact that it's a contract year motivate one mediocre goalie when it won't the other? Why doesn't the logic apply to both equally?

Personally, I want nothing to do with Khabby and his enormous price tag. Cut it in half and we'll talk. Until then, it's a non-starter in my mind.

Agreed. Even then I don't really see any reason to take Khabibulin over Gerber unless he is actually better. Lehtonen on the other hand.......

504Heater wrote:

Oh...I dunno. He used to be such a prolific scorer that I guess Murray's hoping an invite to play with Fish, Vermette, Spezza, Heatley and Alf breathes new life into him.

I like it a lot. It gives us a true top six and allows for Foligno to learn more with Kelly in a checking line before taking the plunge. Plus...gives us nice callups for when injuries strike.

I like the NHL experience up there - and I think at 1.5 million (or less hopefully!), this guy could turn out to be one of the best pickups of the summer.

Or he could suck. :D

For $1.5 mil or so, I have to admit that it would be hard to pass up. G. Murray will never play a full season again because of injuries, but I think he's still good for 65 games and 45-50 points, especially when paired with legitimate top-6 players.

I worry a lot about what it would mean for our young guys, tho'.

Acrobat wrote:Sorry for the excess verbage above...
got carried away...

Bah. No need to apologize. I mean, have you seen some of my posts? :D