Sens this season's 'Biggest Disappointment'

504Heater wrote:
An 'F', really? The fact that he can draft might push him up. Also, the signings of Spezza and Heatley were below market value at the time - especially Heatley.

I would give him a C- for not getting Boyle and perhaps facilitating a trade mid-season when Dung wasn't working. If you could have moved Spezza, mid-season would've been neat. MacDonald, Little, someone who's good enough to step in and still make an impact.

But an F? Reserve that for the tools in Tampa Bay - who HAD Danny Boyle and let him walk for nothing, for over-paying Vinny in this market and age, for overpaying Meszaros (although that's debatable), for signing every forward under the sun and then waiving Jokinen, Ouellet and making Vrbada leave the country.

The only move I thought was any good at all was Mike Smith and Halpern for Richards. Great trade. Their goaltending should be good for the next 2 years. But that trade was last year.

Worst. Run. Franchise. Ever.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:
See my responses above in BOLD.

davetherave wrote:
Yes, an F for the Shawville Shaman.

You're letting Murray off the hook because Ottawa isn't as bad as Tampa?

Why bother with the comparison?

There's no grade low enough for their implosion this year--at the tail end of several bad years, by the way. As you said, worst run franchise (in terms of the on-ice product).

The Bolts were already bad, and the circus opened early on there, starring Two Clowns and The Mullet. No surprise they crashed.

But they ate their serving of fried crow. You don't see Brian Lawton coming out and blaming the players, and he's not making excuses for the hiring and firing of Barry Melrose--who got the boot early.

davetherave wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:
See my responses above in BOLD.

And BOLD they are. cool)

But while you may be ready to give Mr Murray the benefit of the doubt, the fact is that the Senators, under his tenure as GM, have fallen precipitously from being a Stanley Cup finalist to a team that was seriously in the lead, at times this year, for the 'Tavares-Hedman Cup'.

davetherave wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:
See my responses above in BOLD.

And BOLD they are. cool)

But while you may be ready to give Mr Murray the benefit of the doubt, the fact is that the Senators, under his tenure as GM, have fallen precipitously from being a Stanley Cup finalist to a team that was seriously in the lead, at times this year, for the 'Tavares-Hedman Cup'.

Neely4Life wrote:You also forget what he was given when he got here. There were no prospects, poor draft choices, and no assets to actually make this team better. He was also tied into the Gerber contract.

Like it or not, the players he rewarded for the cup run have basically spit in his face to this point. Im not defending his coaching choices, they were poor, but if Murray lets those guys walk (Emery, Spezza, Heatley) so on the fans would have killed him.

His trades have been solid, draft choices have been well scouted thus far. He might not get a high grade, but an "F" is wrong.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

davetherave wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:
See my responses above in BOLD.

And BOLD they are. cool)

But while you may be ready to give Mr Murray the benefit of the doubt, the fact is that the Senators, under his tenure as GM, have fallen precipitously from being a Stanley Cup finalist to a team that was seriously in the lead, at times this year, for the 'Tavares-Hedman Cup'.

Sure has but again it's been a short time frame and a GM can't work miracles. Murray wasn't the one who walked away from Chara and signed Redden, Murray isn't the one who wouldn't waive his NTC to improve this team. Murray made two stupid coaching choices and as Clouston is showing now most of what ailed the Sens had in large part to do with coaching this season.

I'm not under any false illusion that the Sens in their current state will be Playoff Contenders next season. Look at the track record of teams after Murray leaves and how many pieces Murray put in place that allowed his former teams to succeed. Most recent case is Anaheim, before that was Detroit I believe. I guess what will happen is Murray gets fired in a couple years and Place Holder GM of the future reaps all the rewards of Murray's solid drafting, developing and key signings.

davetherave wrote:Cap...I'm not suggesting Bryan Murray hasn't done some good things, and I'm not saying he isn't very good at what he does.

But IMHO he dropped the ball big time with a club that had made it all the way to the Finals.

He gets the big bucks, he wears the big hat, and he sits in the big chair. So he is subject to criticism from the fans. And justifiably so.

As for the future, whether he gets credit or not, he's no doubt well compensated.

As for the team...lots of work to do.

davetherave wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

davetherave wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:
See my responses above in BOLD.

And BOLD they are. cool)

But while you may be ready to give Mr Murray the benefit of the doubt, the fact is that the Senators, under his tenure as GM, have fallen precipitously from being a Stanley Cup finalist to a team that was seriously in the lead, at times this year, for the 'Tavares-Hedman Cup'.

Sure has but again it's been a short time frame and a GM can't work miracles. Murray wasn't the one who walked away from Chara and signed Redden, Murray isn't the one who wouldn't waive his NTC to improve this team. Murray made two stupid coaching choices and as Clouston is showing now most of what ailed the Sens had in large part to do with coaching this season.

I'm not under any false illusion that the Sens in their current state will be Playoff Contenders next season. Look at the track record of teams after Murray leaves and how many pieces Murray put in place that allowed his former teams to succeed. Most recent case is Anaheim, before that was Detroit I believe. I guess what will happen is Murray gets fired in a couple years and Place Holder GM of the future reaps all the rewards of Murray's solid drafting, developing and key signings.

Cap...I'm not suggesting Bryan Murray hasn't done some good things, and I'm not saying he isn't very good at what he does.

But IMHO he dropped the ball big time with a club that had made it all the way to the Finals.

He gets the big bucks, he wears the big hat, and he sits in the big chair. So he is subject to criticism from the fans. And justifiably so.

As for the future, whether he gets credit or not, he's no doubt well compensated.

As for the team...lots of work to do.

Neely4Life wrote:I dont think Fisher did, I think Fisher was right on and he is paid maybe a bit more than he might be worth, but not much.

People forget this guy missed training camp while travelling with the team to Sweden and really getting no ice time. He comes back and the team is already struggling and playing a system where it was hard for anyone to produce.

I'll give Fisher a mulligan for this year because of those circumstances and the fact that he works hard every night. I can deal with someone being over paid and working hard to try and earn it.

The other 2 over paid primma donna's, not so much.

504Heater wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:I dont think Fisher did, I think Fisher was right on and he is paid maybe a bit more than he might be worth, but not much.

People forget this guy missed training camp while travelling with the team to Sweden and really getting no ice time. He comes back and the team is already struggling and playing a system where it was hard for anyone to produce.

I'll give Fisher a mulligan for this year because of those circumstances and the fact that he works hard every night. I can deal with someone being over paid and working hard to try and earn it.

The other 2 over paid primma donna's, not so much.

It's hard to like Dany Heatley right now, no matter who you are. What is he doing? Show some professional pride for ****'s sake. He looks like Lecavilaer (sp, don't care) out there - listless and bored.

504Heater wrote:

davetherave wrote:Cap...I'm not suggesting Bryan Murray hasn't done some good things, and I'm not saying he isn't very good at what he does.

But IMHO he dropped the ball big time with a club that had made it all the way to the Finals.

He gets the big bucks, he wears the big hat, and he sits in the big chair. So he is subject to criticism from the fans. And justifiably so.

As for the future, whether he gets credit or not, he's no doubt well compensated.

As for the team...lots of work to do.

I'm definitely not going to argue, there's work to do to ensure he keeps his job.

What would you do Dave? I know there was a thread about it at one point, but this is your situation right now. What would you do, and when would you do it?

I'm curious to be honest.

Neely4Life wrote:
Lecailver has been totally screwed over in Tampa, big difference. They have taken everything that made him and that team successful away. Heatley is given every chance to produce and succeed.

davetherave wrote:That's a very good question.

I know this is a pretty emotional issue for Sens fans, but when I give an executive an 'F', it's because they've failed to deliver on the promise.

It doesn't mean the situation can't be fixed. It doesn't mean the 'grade' is etched in stone.

But what to do, indeed? You have key players with NTCs and salary committments that preclude flexibility, two elements that essentially handcuff a GM wanting to make changes.

Maybe a trade can be made to alleviate the situation, but I have my doubts.

IMHO Clouston will have to make do with what he has, and Sens fans will have to patient.

504Heater wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:
Lecailver has been totally screwed over in Tampa, big difference. They have taken everything that made him and that team successful away. Heatley is given every chance to produce and succeed.

I don't follow. How has he been screwed over? You mean he's lost the will to be good?

Neely4Life wrote:Lost the will to play in Tampa, for sure. Who wouldnt. You trade your best D, one of your best friends and team mates, hire a coach that has no business being in the NHL, so on.

Lecailver has been totally screwed over, not to mention the fact they rushed him back from injury this year.

504Heater wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:Lost the will to play in Tampa, for sure. Who wouldnt. You trade your best D, one of your best friends and team mates, hire a coach that has no business being in the NHL, so on.

Lecailver has been totally screwed over, not to mention the fact they rushed him back from injury this year.

Why the heck did he sign his extension then?