If you could save 3 players who would they be?

Kelly is easily this teams best defensive forward, not even close. He still produces offensivly more than those two and has the speed needed to play against the other teams best players.

Wicnshester? Has he even played the last month? He is strong along the boards, thats it, there is nothing else to his game that is impressive or unique. McAmmond has been better lately and shouldnt be to blame either, but Kelly is a better player than McAmmond for sure.

You have one of the best defensive forwards in the game, tied up in his prime for 2.1 mil a year, I'll take that every time.

504Heater wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:
How is it a mistake? At all? You actually need guys like Kelly to win in the NHL. I wont try and argue this with you because clearly you dont see what Kelly does on the ice with and without the puck, and how great of a player he is when the game is on the line.

I find Winchester better already. 2.1 million is too much for a guy that is purely defensive. In fact, I find McAmmond better and he's getting less than half. How can you argue that?

Great examples. I think you lose nothing replacing Kelly with either player and actually gain some speed in the case of McAmmond.

Neely4Life wrote:Kelly is easily this teams best defensive forward, not even close. He still produces offensivly more than those two and has the speed needed to play against the other teams best players.

Wicnshester? Has he even played the last month? He is strong along the boards, thats it, there is nothing else to his game that is impressive or unique. McAmmond has been better lately and shouldnt be to blame either, but Kelly is a better player than McAmmond for sure.

You have one of the best defensive forwards in the game, tied up in his prime for 2.1 mil a year, I'll take that every time.

I think you overstate his value. This is my opinion but he has not been good this year at all. I would like to think I am somewhat educated about the game and while Kelly is smart positionally he has taken a lot of short cuts this year. Not a lot of starts and stops, more circles and flybys which is characteristic of what this entire team is doing.

I agree Murder. And it's not that I hate Kelly, but the $$ value of his package makes me cringe.

Kelly is a secondairy player on this team, and he is limited in what he can do if the other guys on this team cant win. He is there to slow things down in his own zone, chip the pucks out when need be, and bring a sense of calm to the team when the momentum might be changing.

Thing is, his skill set is basically useless when they are always playing from behind, the big money guys cant score, and the team cant win. If you're looking to rebuild then Kelly should be gone because its pointless to keep him here. If you're looking to win next year and going forward Kelly is a guy you want and need on your team.

You will not have a hard time finding a team to take on Kelly. Kelly is way more effective and valuable to a team like Detroit or San Jose than he is to an Ottawa or an NYI.

Neely4Life wrote:Kelly is a secondairy player on this team, and he is limited in what he can do if the other guys on this team cant win. He is there to slow things down in his own zone, chip the pucks out when need be, and bring a sense of calm to the team when the momentum might be changing.

Thing is, his skill set is basically useless when they are always playing from behind, the big money guys cant score, and the team cant win. If you're looking to rebuild then Kelly should be gone because its pointless to keep him here. If you're looking to win next year and going forward Kelly is a guy you want and need on your team.

You will not have a hard time finding a team to take on Kelly. Kelly is way more effective and valuable to a team like Detroit or San Jose than he is to an Ottawa or an NYI.

That I can at least buy into.

Neely4Life wrote:

RobbyJ wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:Kelly is fine! He is a perfect 3rd line center.

People are getting away from what is really ailing the team again and looking to throw around blame.

There is about 14.5 mil dollars worth of blame to go on that top line. They get most of their points and goals on the PP. Guess what, the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th lines are the ones drawing the penalties. People are going to say that Heatley and Spezza still produce more than anyone, well, thats because of the hard work the other lines provide and draw those penalties.

Spezza and Heatley both on this team is a waste of time, money, and committment.

I would say about 19.9 mil dollars worth of blame to be honest.

Ill give a 35 year old captain, who was actually good last night, who has given his life to the Sens and still this teams best player a break. Oh, and not to mention the numerous discounts he has taken to stay in Ottawa.

The other 2 guys you get nothing from unless things are going their way.

There is no room for sentiment in a cap world. I've missed only 2 games this year, and I am hard pressed to choose any where Alfie was outstanding. Maybe it his linemates that are rubbing off on him, but he looks like a lazy turnover machine alot of the time.

504Heater wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:Kelly is a secondairy player on this team, and he is limited in what he can do if the other guys on this team cant win. He is there to slow things down in his own zone, chip the pucks out when need be, and bring a sense of calm to the team when the momentum might be changing.

Thing is, his skill set is basically useless when they are always playing from behind, the big money guys cant score, and the team cant win. If you're looking to rebuild then Kelly should be gone because its pointless to keep him here. If you're looking to win next year and going forward Kelly is a guy you want and need on your team.

You will not have a hard time finding a team to take on Kelly. Kelly is way more effective and valuable to a team like Detroit or San Jose than he is to an Ottawa or an NYI.

That I can at least buy into.

ditto

504Heater wrote:...his package makes me cringe.

We are still talking about hockey here right?

MurderOnIce wrote:
We are still talking about hockey here right?

:D Gee, I hope so.

I fully agree with N$L on this Kelly debate. You cannot compare what Kelly does defensively to MFing Winchester (who has been invisible in every game of 2009...seems to have taken a step back) or McAmmond. If Deano could do what Kelly does, then Deano would do what Kelly does. I can't make it any simpler than that.

Neely4Life wrote:Alfi, A train, Elliott, thats it.

Spezza has gone back to his old ways, AGAIN. He can only play against the weaker teams, thats a big problem.

Any team with any kind of strong team defense, Spezza is invisable, same with Heatley. Neither of those 2 are franchise guys.

You really change your tone quickly. It was only 10 days ago that Spezza was carving through MTL like a damn champion. The fact is that he just chooses when he wants to play and when he doesn't. It doesn't matter who the competition is...

Spezza, Karlsson and Alfie, everyone else is expandable.

Oh yeah, to answer the thread: The only three players in the organization that I wouldn't trade are Spezza, E.Karlsson, Volchenkov. There are others who would be well on the bubble, but those are my untouchables.

No-one on this roster is untouchable in my opinion. If someone offers me something that I can't refuse.. sionara. Vancouver... Luongo for Alfie...done. <--blasphemy? not really that makes hockey sense. Fact is nothing is working right now, therefore no-one is untouchable as long as the deal makes sense.

cash wrote:I fully agree with N$L on this Kelly debate. You cannot compare what Kelly does defensively to MFing Winchester (who has been invisible in every game of 2009...seems to have taken a step back) or McAmmond. If Deano could do what Kelly does, then Deano would do what Kelly does. I can't make it any simpler than that.

Neely4Life wrote:Alfi, A train, Elliott, thats it.

Spezza has gone back to his old ways, AGAIN. He can only play against the weaker teams, thats a big problem.

Any team with any kind of strong team defense, Spezza is invisable, same with Heatley. Neither of those 2 are franchise guys.

You really change your tone quickly. It was only 10 days ago that Spezza was carving through MTL like a damn champion. The fact is that he just chooses when he wants to play and when he doesn't. It doesn't matter who the competition is...

The thing is, in terms of Spezza choosing when he WANTS to show up, the task is then on Alfie and Hartsburg and others to remind him and motivate him to show up EVERY single time the Sens have a practice or a game...PERIOD.
I may not like my job every day, and the pay may not be as good as I think it should be, but when I show up to work, I do not only what's asked of me, but even more. Spezza, with his 7 figure income should know better...

Cronenbergfan wrote:

cash wrote:I fully agree with N$L on this Kelly debate. You cannot compare what Kelly does defensively to MFing Winchester (who has been invisible in every game of 2009...seems to have taken a step back) or McAmmond. If Deano could do what Kelly does, then Deano would do what Kelly does. I can't make it any simpler than that.

Neely4Life wrote:Alfi, A train, Elliott, thats it.

Spezza has gone back to his old ways, AGAIN. He can only play against the weaker teams, thats a big problem.

Any team with any kind of strong team defense, Spezza is invisable, same with Heatley. Neither of those 2 are franchise guys.

You really change your tone quickly. It was only 10 days ago that Spezza was carving through MTL like a damn champion. The fact is that he just chooses when he wants to play and when he doesn't. It doesn't matter who the competition is...

The thing is, in terms of Spezza choosing when he WANTS to show up, the task is then on Alfie and Hartsburg and others to remind him and motivate him to show up EVERY single time the Sens have a practice or a game...PERIOD.
I may not like my job every day, and the pay may not be as good as I think it should be, but when I show up to work, I do not only what's asked of me, but even more. Spezza, with his 7 figure income should know better...

Why should a 25 year old man who is paid more than both of those guys put together depend on them to get motivated?

Neely4Life wrote:
Why should a 25 year old man who is paid more than both of those guys put together depend on them to get motivated?

It would appear that he has the body of a 25 year old man but he has the mind of a 12 year old giggly school girl. He has slowed somewhat on the giggles recently though, maybe he has watched some of the interviews and was embarrassed?

Neely - I'm pretty sure Cronenberg's point was that he shouldn't....