Fighting in the NHL

SeawaySensFan wrote:They should allow it and remove the instigator rule.

The big beef people have is these "staged" fights. Another by-product of the instigator rule along with the advent of the "Super Pest".

I don't think that you can take out the fighting without the aggression coming out in some other form. Hockey is a fast paced game played on a pair of knife edges and using potentially lethal weapons (to paraphrase).

The introduction of the instigator rule had the effect of increasing the cheap shots in many circumstances, because players knew that the "goon" (not always the heavyweight, could be the Chris Neil type) would come after them to extract payment. Of course, it also led to more of the staged boxing/wrestling matches that are more of a waste of time, despite making the highlight reels.

The skilled player who fired out the cheap shots would generally be subject to retaliation, but then this was the job of the "enforcers" on the same line. And they in turn were countered by the cheap-shot artists on the opposition. If I recall hockey history correctly, Rocket Richard was known as the king of cheap shots, despite being incredibly skilled - I understand that he often had to fend for himself as well.

I'd suggest that a better solution would be to eliminate head-shots, hits from behind, and intent to injure - forget about the two minute penalties for these and start at five, and escalate rapidly to game misconducts, etc. Then introduce financial penalties for the coach, GM, and owner. Finally, force the team to dress one less player while a player is under suspension. If the team has to pay for a player's stupidity, then they will deal with the player, or he won't play.

People who know me at all would be surprised to hear that I'm not fully in support of fighting. I think has gradually become more cultural than useful. When I was growing up fighting was common, but it served a purpose. Whether that purpose be retribution, or simply trying to "hype" up one's team, there was purpose.

Nowadays fighting is trivial. In a world of inch thick padding and visors, injuries from fighting are rare. There is no longer a sense of honour and respect. More than a couple people come to mind who are out there running their mouths and playing dirty, then running scared.

Hockey could fully survive without fighting, as long as the referees did their jobs right. I would remove the instigator, but make fighting majors 10 minute misconducts. Also I would make Head shot and hitting from behind a 4 minute double minor, with a 75,000$ fine, and a possibility of suspension.

Slowly, over time, fighting could easily be taken out of hockey.

I am pro fighting. I am not pro theatrics. I love to see the policemen of the 80's and early 90's ensure that no-one on their team was taken advantage of. That died with the instigator. Now it is something different and I am less of a fan. I would love it to go back to the way it used to be, in lieu of that I would sadly see it go the way of Patrick Stefan's career, slowly into obscurity....

Let me clarify that I am not advocating fighting - I agree with what Tukker stated in that it no longer serves a purpose. He echo'ed my point, though, (and others' points) in saying that there is now a lack of respect - I think that the respect has to be brought back, and I don't think that will happen by outlawing fighting. It is far more effective to take away the incentive to fight.

Short answer is that if they get rid of fighting they have to have STIFF penalties for hitting from behind, stick infractions etc... people will get hurt otherwise.

I honestly think that the answer to lessen fighting (if that's what you really want) is remove the instigator rule and make fighting a 10 minute penalty. You can always tack on a misconduct for someone who starts a fight. That is what I never got. The ref always had the ability to add time himself.. if it started with a slash add a slashing penalty... if it started with boarding add boarding... if it started with a clean hit, then give the guy who jumps him an unsportsmanlike. There always has been an ability to address this built into the rules.

This world has too many people who think that they have solution without being able to articulate what the problem is. According to Don Cherry (take it for what it's worth) the instigator rule was to keep star players from getting jumped. This was never a problem so why are you trying to solve something that isn't causing grief.

Did you all see that fight last night? I think it was a Nashville guy that ended up smoking his helmet-less head on the ice pretty hard. I think he's okay...but it's funny how this happened the day that all of this talk went down.

MurderOnIce wrote:Short answer is that if they get rid of fighting they have to have STIFF penalties for hitting from behind, stick infractions etc... people will get hurt otherwise.

I honestly think that the answer to lessen fighting (if that's what you really want) is remove the instigator rule and make fighting a 10 minute penalty. You can always tack on a misconduct for someone who starts a fight. That is what I never got. The ref always had the ability to add time himself.. if it started with a slash add a slashing penalty... if it started with boarding add boarding... if it started with a clean hit, then give the guy who jumps him an unsportsmanlike. There always has been an ability to address this built into the rules.

This world has too many people who think that they have solution without being able to articulate what the problem is. According to Don Cherry (take it for what it's worth) the instigator rule was to keep star players from getting jumped. This was never a problem so why are you trying to solve something that isn't causing grief.

To expand on yours, here is Dawg's idea (he's been pushing this for about 5 years now). For those that arn't aware Dawg was a big time enforcer so he's been on both sides of the fence.

Fighting is a 5 min fighting major. Referee has the right to determine if he wants to apply a game misconduct (misconducts handed out in the 3rd period is an automatic 1 game suspension). Should you be suspended for another game the team loses the roster spot (IE they can't call someone up to fill in the spot).

His idea is this, should the referee determine that Peters and Brashear skated onto the ice and fought. Not because of anything that happened in the game but because that's their job. Then misconducts are handed out.

If a fight is a result of something game related in other words it's not stagged between two inforcers who were part of the initial incident then it's 5 minute fighting majors.

You start penalizing the teams by reducing their roster by 1 player for the remainder of a game, or the next game then they won't have these enforcers on their teams. I agree that for this to work you would have to remove the instigator penalty.

MurderOnIce wrote:Short answer is that if they get rid of fighting they have to have STIFF penalties for hitting from behind, stick infractions etc... people will get hurt otherwise.

I honestly think that the answer to lessen fighting (if that's what you really want) is remove the instigator rule and make fighting a 10 minute penalty. You can always tack on a misconduct for someone who starts a fight. That is what I never got. The ref always had the ability to add time himself.. if it started with a slash add a slashing penalty... if it started with boarding add boarding... if it started with a clean hit, then give the guy who jumps him an unsportsmanlike. There always has been an ability to address this built into the rules.

This world has too many people who think that they have solution without being able to articulate what the problem is. According to Don Cherry (take it for what it's worth) the instigator rule was to keep star players from getting jumped. This was never a problem so why are you trying to solve something that isn't causing grief.

I fully agree with you. Nice post.
The one thing I always come back to on this argument is that they've outlawed bare-knuckle boxing in both the US and Canada, yet we allow it in our game.