Best Player in the History of the NHL

Yeah but it's not like Lemieux only played a handful of games so, to me it's still a valid argument.

It's gotta be Gretz. Coulda woulda shoulda doesn't count for me. Even if Mario stayed healthy, there is no way to know if he could have maintained his scoring pace over a career as long as Gretzky's. Mario didn't revolutionize the game the way Orr or Gretzky did either. Mario has I'd put Orr 2nd, and Mario 3rd.

Yeah... I went with Gretz in the end too. The impact he had on the ice as well as off the ice did it for me.

Lemieux. I great player is not just defined by stats. Returning from cancer, playing with a bad back his whole career, and still posting VERY respectable stats.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:This is a great debate. I personally chose Lemieux. Had he been able to stay healthy he could have shattered some of Gretzky's records. He is my all time fav. I can also see valid arguments for the others though. This one is a toughy.

Yeah, well, if it wasn't for his style of play that led to all those concussions then Lindros might haev ...

Come on! Longevity is part of greatness. Mario overcame Hodgkins, gotta give him kudos for that, but like it or not, he did not have a very long career, so he is not close to Gretzky's records. That's enough reason to rule him out of this discussion, unless the poll asked "Who could have been the Best Player in the History of the NHL", in which case the answer might be Kharlamov or Yakushev (if he ever played in the NHL).

I think the debate is between Orr and Gretzky, with the Rocket and Gordie fighting it out for distant third.

Laker wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:This is a great debate. I personally chose Lemieux. Had he been able to stay healthy he could have shattered some of Gretzky's records. He is my all time fav. I can also see valid arguments for the others though. This one is a toughy.

You could make the same argument for Orr ... what if he didn't get injured.

I would go with Gretzky but you have to remember the high scoring games when he played ... or had the big seasons.

Even with injuries, Orr he set plenty of records. Has a defenseman ever led the league in scoring before or since? Or led his team in scoring as many times as he did? Even though his career was cut short by injuries, he established records or otherwise changed the game in a profound way. As great as Mario was, what is his lasting impact apart from saving the Pittsburgh franchise and potting that goal in the '87 Canada Cup?

For the record, I still voted for Gretzky. I don't think Mario would have touched his records.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Yeah but it's not like Lemieux only played a handful of games so, to me it's still a valid argument.

It's not the difference between playing 10 games in a season and 70. It's the difference between retiring before you reach the age of 35 and contuinuing playing until you are considered an old guy by NHL standards.

Consider that, on a per-season basis, Gretzky holds the top two spots in best PPG. In Lemieux's best season he managed to snag the third spot.

So, yes, the career PPG numbers, while impressive if he had stayed retired, would have excluded the inevitable declining years, and it would make as much sense to say "Well if he had continued to play while growing older and slower, the numbers would go down" as it would to say "Well, if he had stayed retired he would have had the best career PPG numbers".

hemlock34 wrote:It's gotta be Gretz. Coulda woulda shoulda doesn't count for me. Even if Mario stayed healthy, there is no way to know if he could have maintained his scoring pace over a career as long as Gretzky's. Mario didn't revolutionize the game the way Orr or Gretzky did either. Mario has I'd put Orr 2nd, and Mario 3rd.

I'm not sure Super Mario even warrants 3rd. I'd put Gordie and The Rocket there. Actually I'm not even sure I'd put Mario in the top five.

The great one. No questions.

TheAvatar wrote:The great one. No questions.

disapointed Alfie didn't even make the list.

Monkhouse wrote:

TheAvatar wrote:The great one. No questions.

disapointed Alfie didn't even make the list.

I like Alfie and all, but there's no way he can even be mentioned in the same breath as some of those guys... As if, don't kid yourself....

No question, Gretzky.

smash88 wrote:

Monkhouse wrote:

TheAvatar wrote:The great one. No questions.

disapointed Alfie didn't even make the list.

I like Alfie and all, but there's no way he can even be mentioned in the same breath as some of those guys... As if, don't kid yourself....

What is this based on? Purely points? Alfie also plays in a different era..

Monkhouse wrote:

smash88 wrote:

Monkhouse wrote:

TheAvatar wrote:The great one. No questions.

disapointed Alfie didn't even make the list.

I like Alfie and all, but there's no way he can even be mentioned in the same breath as some of those guys... As if, don't kid yourself....

What is this based on? Purely points? Alfie also plays in a different era..

That dosen't matter... Even in today's era there are guys I would rank ahead of Alfie... He's nowhere near the best player in the NHL today, let alone all-time...

smash88 wrote:

Monkhouse wrote:

smash88 wrote:

Monkhouse wrote:

TheAvatar wrote:The great one. No questions.

disapointed Alfie didn't even make the list.

I like Alfie and all, but there's no way he can even be mentioned in the same breath as some of those guys... As if, don't kid yourself....

What is this based on? Purely points? Alfie also plays in a different era..

That dosen't matter... Even in today's era there are guys I would rank ahead of Alfie... He's nowhere near the best player in the NHL today, let alone all-time...

But common Jean Believeau.. is that a joke?

Gentlemen, Mr Mike Bossy:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8445611

Look at his minor league stats guys: 1.3 goals a game average approx. Increadible

NHL: 10 seasons: 9 with 50+ goals, 5 with 60+ goals.

4 year Stanley cups dynasty member,

A playoff record you wouldn't believe .... 3 consecutive years with 17 goals

LOL

He's my vote ... Lou

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PHO/AAFV031~Mike-Bossy-with-Stanley-Cup-Posters.jpg

HowieMorenz-is-Alive wrote:Gentlemen, Mr Mike Bossy:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8445611

Look at his minor league stats guys: 1.3 goals a game average approx. Increadible

NHL: 10 seasons: 9 with 50+ goals, 5 with 60+ goals.

4 year Stanley cups dynasty member,

A playoff record you wouldn't believe .... 3 consecutive years with 17 goals

LOL

He's my vote ... Lou

yeah, he belongs on the list rather than 3 Canadiens...

HowieMorenz-is-Alive wrote:Gentlemen, Mr Mike Bossy:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8445611

Look at his minor league stats guys: 1.3 goals a game average approx. Increadible

NHL: 10 seasons: 9 with 50+ goals, 5 with 60+ goals.

4 year Stanley cups dynasty member,

A playoff record you wouldn't believe .... 3 consecutive years with 17 goals

LOL

He's my vote ... Lou

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PHO/AAFV031~Mike-Bossy-with-Stanley-Cup-Posters.jpg

Bossy is probably the best shot ever. I'd put his only challenge as Pavel Bure