Dallas Stars TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

Ev wrote:Hold on.

We gave up a ton for Ryan, in your words, yet Dallas didn't give up anything for Spezza?

The deals are pretty similar. People just see "first round pick" and get all tingly in their jibblies.

Chiasson = Silfverberg

2nd round pick pretty much = Stefan Noesen

Then we got two prospects, and they got one out of the first rounder. None of these guys may pan out, who knows.

That's one way of looking at it, but the more realistic way is that Silfverberg, Noesen and a 1st was VERY valuable at the time they were traded. Much more so than the package we got IMO.

Wouldn't it be something if Paul made the WJC team and Ritchie (10th overall in 14) was cut? Not that I put a lot of any stock into the WJC but that would just shut some people up who keep harping on these two topics (Ryan vs Spezza).

People have the benefit of hindsight and they still think what the Sens gave up for Ryan was a lot. News flash, Silfverberg, Noesen, and Ritchie is right on par with Chaisson, Paul, and Guptill. Hell, Ottawa has the best player out of all 3 of those guys in Chaisson but because he wasn't an SEL MVP and doesn't have a cool last name he's not as good as Silfverberg.

Also, another little tidbit, Ryan is a better hockey player than Spezza and a lot younger.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Ev wrote:Hold on.

We gave up a ton for Ryan, in your words, yet Dallas didn't give up anything for Spezza?

The deals are pretty similar. People just see "first round pick" and get all tingly in their jibblies.

Chiasson = Silfverberg

2nd round pick pretty much = Stefan Noesen

Then we got two prospects, and they got one out of the first rounder. None of these guys may pan out, who knows.

That's one way of looking at it, but the more realistic way is that Silfverberg, Noesen and a 1st was VERY valuable at the time they were traded.   Much more so than the package we got IMO.

That's entirely a matter of perception. You knew who Silfverberg and Noesen were: you read about them, watched them play, thought about where they would slot into our line up, etc. If you had tracked Chiasson, Guptill, and Paul the same way you did the other two, you probably would see things a lot differently.

Anyone have any idea why Nick Paul isn't on our roster at Capgeek, or even locatable on Capgeek at all? Has he not yet signed his entry-level deal?

rooneypoo wrote:Anyone have any idea why Nick Paul isn't on our roster at Capgeek, or even locatable on Capgeek at all? Has he not yet signed his entry-level deal?

Correct, he hasn't signed a contract.

HE PLAYS FOR FREE! THE EUGE LOVES THIS!

Man, I totally forgot what we traded for to get BFR. Every team loves to over-value their prospects, so naturally we felt we gave up a lot. Only time will tell. It is interesting to compare the Spezza return with what we gave up for BFR. And Spezza is in his last year.

Spezza is 100% a different case than Bobby Ryan. As you noted, Spezza is in his last year, he is older, and VERY injury-prone (a back never really heals).

Even then the deal they got for Ryan wasn't much different than what the Sens got for Spezza. Sens took developed prospects they have a better handle on and a 2nd round pick over a 1st round pick, so what? People love making judgement calls before anything has played out but it's what insane people do.

How many of the assets that went to Anahiem have played a game for the Ducks?

It's hard to argue it one way or the other, but I think if you were to poll actual GMs, they would concur that the package we sent to Anaheim was much more valuable than what we got back for Spezza.

SpezDispenser wrote:It's hard to argue it one way or the other, but I think if you were to poll actual GMs, they would concur that the package we sent to Anaheim was much more valuable than what we got back for Spezza.

  It's like you didn't register anything from the above. Carry on.

rooneypoo wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:It's hard to argue it one way or the other, but I think if you were to poll actual GMs, they would concur that the package we sent to Anaheim was much more valuable than what we got back for Spezza.

  It's like you didn't register anything from the above. Carry on.

Value is value. It's hard to argue against the package we sent to Anaheim being more valuable than the one we got back for Spezza.

Bobby Ryan also had more value than Spezza

SpezDispenser wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:It's hard to argue it one way or the other, but I think if you were to poll actual GMs, they would concur that the package we sent to Anaheim was much more valuable than what we got back for Spezza.

  It's like you didn't register anything from the above. Carry on.

Value is value.  It's hard to argue against the package we sent to Anaheim being more valuable than the one we got back for Spezza.  

Were you listening?

Ryan when he was traded: 26, no history of injuries, 2 years left on a deal at $5.1 mil cap hit
Spezza when he was traded: 31, long history of injuries, 1 year left on his deal at $7 mil cap hit

So. to summarize:

-- Ryan > Spezza
-- 5 years younger, no history of significant injuries, cheaper, signed longer term

To say nothing of the fact that, again, you just don't know the DAL prospects the same way you did the OTT prospects.

Yah I am not sure how anyone can't see the difference in value between Spezza and Ryan. With that said I am not convinced Ottawa didn't get the best player back vs everything else in both deal (Silfverberg, Noesen, Guptil, Paul, and Ritchie) on top of everything else. What Paul and Guptil turn into will be the deciding factor in what kind of deal was made, if one of those guys turns out then it was a good deal, if both turn out if was a steal/great deal, if neither and Chaisson shows he isn't anything more than a 3rd line winger then we can discuss the deal being a flop and not getting value.

Fact: Ottawa's jr/ncaa/european scouting is second to none.

It's not really hard to figure out. People here are dancing around the fact that Silfverberg was a TOP prospect at the time with some NHL time, Noesen was a very solid prospect and a 1st is a 1st.

You can sugarcoat it all day long that the Sens picked out the guys they wanted etc., but the fact remains that the price was much higher for Ryan.

Probably has something to do with the fact that Ryan's younger? Yeah...no kidding lol.

Silfverberg wasn't a TOP prospect in the NHL. Never was.

SpezDispenser wrote:It's not really hard to figure out.  People here are dancing around the fact that Silfverberg was a TOP prospect at the time with some NHL time, Noesen was a very solid prospect and a 1st is a 1st.

You can sugarcoat it all day long that the Sens picked out the guys they wanted etc., but the fact remains that the price was much higher for Ryan.

Probably has something to do with the fact that Ryan's younger?  Yeah...no kidding lol.

So.... the Sens paid more for a younger player, with no history of injuries, on a better deal, signed longer term... than DAL paid for an older player, with a history of injuries, getting overpaid, on an expiring contract... What the Diddle is your point again?