Ottawa Senators TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

NEELY wrote:
WTF? They made the playoffs the year before. The time to trade him was during a playoff run? It all came apart at once basically and Murray corrected that... he did what he could with the hand he was dealt. The only thing he had control over were the coaches and that was it.

Saying Murray was at fault because of the total lack of depth in the organization and the lack of character in that room is BS. Like Gonchar this year, like Kuba the year before, Murray didn't get stupid overnight. People have such knee jerk reactions it's unbelievable.

The wheels were coming off a long time before that. We got decimated in the playoffs and basically only got there because of top heavy talent. No organizational depth at all.

Murray did this retool/rebuild right, but for the millionth time he was on the hook for poor coaching decisions and odd, cheap signings that were literally scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Furthermore, no one was mad at Murray for Kuba or Gonchar - not around here anyway, they were mad that Kuba and Gonchar appeared to be DONE. And if that was the case, we were horrified that we were about to get stuck with them. You said it, I said it, everyone who watched the game of hockey said it: Is Gonchar done? He looked like he was skating in mud and basically didn't give a Dung.

This is what I meant, it's revisionist history right now.

I think some of us said that Gonchar and Kuba didn't become garbage after night and they didn't. The coaching decisions were poor and I think everyone agreed that was on Murray, they were his guys but other than that... not so much.

Anyway, I guess the bottom line is we're lucky that he kept his job, because he's been nothing short of amazing. A true GM of the year candidate.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Then you're a better fan than all of us, because I'd guarantee - even the biggest supporters of Murray were doubting he'd survive Hartsburg and Clouston.

Nope, just some people don't all jump off the cliff or throw people under the bus. My only critique of Murray were his coaching decisions but that's obviously been corrected.

Anyone who had any kind of pulse on the team knew exactly what the problem was... the old guard stopped caring about hockey as the #1 reason they were in Ottawa. Be it drugs, wives, or injuries, the team had to be blown up and it was. Add in the fact Murray is a builder and nothing less and some people were of the belief Murray was the person to take them through it.

The Dung show wasn't on Murray, it was on Muckler's years of poor drafting, poor trades, and poor signings.

It still happened under Murray's watch, whether or not Muckler was responsible, Murray didn't do much to stop the bleeding for a while. Randy Robitaille, Alex Picard - these are scrubs, he could have acquired better players through the waiver wire and didn't. Guys like Fisher were kept a year too long, although we still got good value. The essence of the team was flawed and all Murray had to do was tell Melnyk that it was time to take the core apart and start working on it anew. Lucky he survived long enough to carry that through IMO.

Again though, what he's done is amazing, I can't stress that enough and I'm happy as a clam that he wasn't canned.

Murray had to bring in scrubs because Muckler traded away any decent prospect that was in the AHL. It took 3 yrs before Murray put those players in Bingo. The re-build could only happen as he had players in the AHL that could come in to fill the roles.

Muckler made some bad decisions as GM.. Murray has as well.. but we all know the Chara over Redden.. Havlat basically given away. Blindsiding Hossa with the sign and trade. Bad drafting.. Bryan & Tim Murray along with Pierre Dorion are basically masters of the draft. They have done a great job in rebuilding the prospect system. It takes about 3 yrs from when you draft until these prospects hit the AHL...

Who knows, maybe Robitaille and Alex Picard were added for a tank job?

Anyways, if the cap was not so low in 2008, we would probably have added Dan Boyle which would have helped a big time. I don't remember how many times I read/heard "we need a PMD" during those times. Probably close to a 1000 times.

NEELY wrote:I think some of us said that Gonchar and Kuba didn't become garbage after night and they didn't. The coaching decisions were poor and I think everyone agreed that was on Murray, they were his guys but other than that... not so much.

Kuba was garbage when he was re-signed. Murray should have dealt him at the deadline instead of giving him that brutal contract. I have said Kuba was garbage the entire time he was here and now he is garbage in Florida.

Oglethorpe wrote:

NEELY wrote:I think some of us said that Gonchar and Kuba didn't become garbage after night and they didn't. The coaching decisions were poor and I think everyone agreed that was on Murray, they were his guys but other than that... not so much.

Kuba was garbage when he was re-signed. Murray should have dealt him at the deadline instead of giving him that brutal contract. I have said Kuba was garbage the entire time he was here and now he is garbage in Florida.

Besides the years where the entire team struggled, Kuba was solid as a Senator. Very solid partner for Karlsson for a couple years and picked up the slack when Redden moved on (not that Redden could do the job anymore).

Kuba is a decent NHL D man at this point, nothing spectacular by any means but he could be useful for a lot of NHL teams looking for stability on the backend.

NEELY wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

NEELY wrote:I think some of us said that Gonchar and Kuba didn't become garbage after night and they didn't. The coaching decisions were poor and I think everyone agreed that was on Murray, they were his guys but other than that... not so much.

Kuba was garbage when he was re-signed. Murray should have dealt him at the deadline instead of giving him that brutal contract. I have said Kuba was garbage the entire time he was here and now he is garbage in Florida.

Besides the years where the entire team struggled, Kuba was solid as a Senator. Very solid partner for Karlsson for a couple years and picked up the slack when Redden moved on (not that Redden could do the job anymore).

Kuba is a decent NHL D man at this point, nothing spectacular by any means but he could be useful for a lot of NHL teams looking for stability on the backend.

I only go by what I have seen and we'll have to disagree here, because he is brutal IMO.

So last year Kuba was brutal? The year he put up 41 points in 71 games he was brutal? He had an awful year the season Ottawa blew it up for sure, but other than that he was a solid Senator. It's not even a matter of disagreeing or agreeing, your assestment is way off.

NEELY wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

NEELY wrote:I think some of us said that Gonchar and Kuba didn't become garbage after night and they didn't. The coaching decisions were poor and I think everyone agreed that was on Murray, they were his guys but other than that... not so much.

Kuba was garbage when he was re-signed. Murray should have dealt him at the deadline instead of giving him that brutal contract. I have said Kuba was garbage the entire time he was here and now he is garbage in Florida.

Besides the years where the entire team struggled, Kuba was solid as a Senator. Very solid partner for Karlsson for a couple years and picked up the slack when Redden moved on (not that Redden could do the job anymore).

Kuba is a decent NHL D man at this point, nothing spectacular by any means but he could be useful for a lot of NHL teams looking for stability on the backend.

check the years. Kuba is only solid in his contract years. that guy should never receive more then a one year contract.

Pretty solid 3 of the 4 from what I watched. Sucked he got hurt the year the Sens played the Pens in the playoffs in 09/10 but he was very solid that year as well.

NEELY wrote:Pretty solid 3 of the 4 from what I watched. Sucked he got hurt the year the Sens played the Pens in the playoffs in 09/10 but he was very solid that year as well.

I don't think "solid" is the word I would choose for him. He was fine in the offensive zone, but he wasn't great in his own end. I have trouble with a Dman that basically doesn't hit and doesn't have glowing offensive numbers (he averaged about 30 hits a year except in his contract year). Even last year, which was his best for physical play, he was out-hit by Karlsson.

LeKing wrote:Not sure what you mean but even during the Hartsburg days I was defending him and my arguments were that he couldn't make trades because everyone was underperforming so we'd lose value, so it's best to just wait for draft picks to develop. Here we are 5 years later and the 2008 draft has pretty much developed a superstar, a 3rd line center and another top 4D. The following draft has produced the best young goalie in the NHL, a future deadly sniper and another top 4D.
His free agents signings were also dreadful but it was because we had no one in the pipeline.
I think we can all see throughout the league that free agents rarely make any difference and are bad building blocks unless they join an already very good team.

I've never even once suggested Murray should have been replaced

Don't forget Emil Sandin.

Two other Sen related tidbits from CBC:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2013/03/30-thoughts-many-gms-feel-trade-deadline-too-inflationary.html

25. One scout on Ottawa: "It's amazing how much they look like Detroit, the way they pressure the puck and support it." The Paul MacLean influence, of course.

26. Chris Phillips has four goals this year and the Senators are 4-0 in those games. His career high is eight (twice). He and Daniel Alfredsson talked about that last summer, how, at 35, Phillips should make it a goal to beat that. To help, Phillips changed the parameters of his stick. For example, he lowered the lie. He'd had the previous one for a long time. Good on him.

Preach.

NEELY wrote:So last year Kuba was brutal? The year he put up 41 points in 71 games he was brutal? He had an awful year the season Ottawa blew it up for sure, but other than that he was a solid Senator. It's not even a matter of disagreeing or agreeing, your assestment is way off.

Without Karlsson he gets 20ish points. Guy was awful.

Oglethorpe wrote:

NEELY wrote:So last year Kuba was brutal? The year he put up 41 points in 71 games he was brutal? He had an awful year the season Ottawa blew it up for sure, but other than that he was a solid Senator. It's not even a matter of disagreeing or agreeing, your assestment is way off.

Without Karlsson he gets 20ish points. Guy was awful.

Lol, so nothing substantial from your end, just what ifs, guesses, and an totally ignorant opinion? Gotcha.

NEELY wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

NEELY wrote:So last year Kuba was brutal? The year he put up 41 points in 71 games he was brutal? He had an awful year the season Ottawa blew it up for sure, but other than that he was a solid Senator. It's not even a matter of disagreeing or agreeing, your assestment is way off.

Without Karlsson he gets 20ish points. Guy was awful.

Lol, so nothing substantial from your end, just what ifs, guesses, and an totally ignorant opinion? Gotcha.

Same substantiation as you, watching and evaluating. Just a difference of opinions, except my opinion is the right one.