hockey Pool 2011-12

Seriously though: is everyone that deadset against changing the way goalies are scored? No star points is one thing, but 1 point for a win and 2 points for a shutout? So a goalie that has 10 shutouts only gets a team 20 points?

It should be 3 points for a shutout and 2 for a win. I'm not sure why it isn't. A goalie with 10 shutouts and 50 wins (HIGHLY unlikely) is worth about what the 30th ranked skater is worth (going by fantrax's 2010-11 results). I don't see how that really changes the importance of drafting goalies in earlier rounds. They still wouldn't be worth very much.

Last season, for example, the highest point total for a goalie would have been Henrik Lundqvist with 105 points, putting him in a tie for 68th in points last season.

That makes 2/3 through the 5th round the earliest time to select a goalie in the draft. Outside of Flo's auto-select in the 4th and 5th round, no one took a goalie before the 6th round.

I think this is a very reasonable suggestion and I don't agree that "we agreed before the draft" is an adequate reason to leave the scoring as is. Goalies are virtually irrelevant in the current setup. Quite frankly, we're now in for money (regardless of how little it is) and the league should be set up properly. Adjusting scoring as I'm suggesting would do just that.

Can everyone please seriously consider this? Thanks.

I'd vote yes to that, but I don't really care either way.

you cant change the scoring after a draft. thats just ridiculous. i ignored drafting goalies because it was obvious they wouldnt bring as much as a top forward or dman.

if you didnt like it you should have spoken up before we started

garblar wrote:you cant change the scoring after a draft. thats just ridiculous. i ignored drafting goalies because it was obvious they wouldnt bring as much as a top forward or dman.

if you didnt like it you should have spoken up before we started

I took Anderson in the 8th round because I thought star points meant something. 5 or 6 people then started discussing how he'd be a star in half the games we played this year... obviously I wasn't the only one who was confused about the way scoring occured.

In fact, the only people to avoid goaltending for most of the draft were you and Dash. I'd say that most everyone was unaware of just how useless goalies were. I would be willing to bet that you and Dash would be the only two to object to my proposal.

It literally makes less sense to have goalies worth this little than to change the points: My proposal brings goalie value in line with what 85% of drafters seem to have believed it was in the first place. Right now, the top projected goalie gives his team 54 points. I'm asking to double it... A mid level goalie is still worth only 75 points... It doesn't seem all that unreasonable, especially considering your bottom bottom-3 forward will be worth more than the vezina winner.

There are several teams with multiple goalies. I know Flo and I are willing to move a goalie. He'd probably be looking for an upgrade elsewhere, but I'd be willing to go straight up on a downgrade. For instance, you give me Mike Smith, I'll give you Craig Anderson.

I'd really like to hear a reasonable explanation as to why this idea doesn't work. As I said initially, "the draft is over" does not sufficiently discount all that I've outlined. Altering the points in this way is the most appropriate thing to do, as it does not affect when goalie were drafted and it provides them with sufficient, albeit minimal value.

There are literally players available on waivers right now that last season would have outscored all but 1 goalie. And there are dozens available that would have outscored all but the top 10 goalies from last year.

I'm really struggling to see how this change would be a problem.

I for one Cussing agree! give 2 points for a win(like last year) and star points, it ony makes sense why can't they and other players can't. it's mind boggling. I'll still trade one of my goalies.

Flo The Action wrote:I for one Cussing agree! give 2 points for a win(like last year) and star points, it ony makes sense why can't they and other players can't. it's mind boggling. I'll still trade one of my goalies.

Star points is pushing it. My whole point wasn't to make taking a goalie too early a good idea, it was to make taking a goalie at any point a good idea. With the current point setup, every goalie pick prior to the final 3 rounds was a bad pick because not one goalie will garner more point than any selected player.

Its either one or the other. Either they get star points or the value of wins and shutouts increases, but not both. And I think star points should be kept out of it.

All I'm saying is to bump the value of a win up by 1 point and to do the same for a shutout. That's it. It won't make goalies more valuable than players. It will give them a reason for even being there.

Furthermore, as of right now, the difference between the top goalie and the 20th ranked goalie doesn't even cover the difference between the 1st and 4th ranked player.

cash wrote:

garblar wrote:you cant change the scoring after a draft. thats just ridiculous. i ignored drafting goalies because it was obvious they wouldnt bring as much as a top forward or dman.

if you didnt like it you should have spoken up before we started

I took Anderson in the 8th round because I thought star points meant something. 5 or 6 people then started discussing how he'd be a star in half the games we played this year... obviously I wasn't the only one who was confused about the way scoring occured.

In fact, the only people to avoid goaltending for most of the draft were you and Dash. I'd say that most everyone was unaware of just how useless goalies were. I would be willing to bet that you and Dash would be the only two to object to my proposal.

It literally makes less sense to have goalies worth this little than to change the points: My proposal brings goalie value in line with what 85% of drafters seem to have believed it was in the first place. Right now, the top projected goalie gives his team 54 points. I'm asking to double it... A mid level goalie is still worth only 75 points... It doesn't seem all that unreasonable, especially considering your bottom bottom-3 forward will be worth more than the vezina winner.

There are several teams with multiple goalies. I know Flo and I are willing to move a goalie. He'd probably be looking for an upgrade elsewhere, but I'd be willing to go straight up on a downgrade. For instance, you give me Mike Smith, I'll give you Craig Anderson.

I'd really like to hear a reasonable explanation as to why this idea doesn't work. As I said initially, "the draft is over" does not sufficiently discount all that I've outlined. Altering the points in this way is the most appropriate thing to do, as it does not affect when goalie were drafted and it provides them with sufficient, albeit minimal value.

if 85% of the drafters cant read the scoring rules properly then they deserve to waste early picks on goalies.
everyone should have known the scoring beforehand, it was posted right on the fantrax website.

so because some people arent able to adapt to the scoring system used we should change it? thats Dung

Fair enough. Let's just leave it.

garblar wrote:

cash wrote:

garblar wrote:you cant change the scoring after a draft. thats just ridiculous. i ignored drafting goalies because it was obvious they wouldnt bring as much as a top forward or dman.

if you didnt like it you should have spoken up before we started

I took Anderson in the 8th round because I thought star points meant something. 5 or 6 people then started discussing how he'd be a star in half the games we played this year... obviously I wasn't the only one who was confused about the way scoring occured.

In fact, the only people to avoid goaltending for most of the draft were you and Dash. I'd say that most everyone was unaware of just how useless goalies were. I would be willing to bet that you and Dash would be the only two to object to my proposal.

It literally makes less sense to have goalies worth this little than to change the points: My proposal brings goalie value in line with what 85% of drafters seem to have believed it was in the first place. Right now, the top projected goalie gives his team 54 points. I'm asking to double it... A mid level goalie is still worth only 75 points... It doesn't seem all that unreasonable, especially considering your bottom bottom-3 forward will be worth more than the vezina winner.

There are several teams with multiple goalies. I know Flo and I are willing to move a goalie. He'd probably be looking for an upgrade elsewhere, but I'd be willing to go straight up on a downgrade. For instance, you give me Mike Smith, I'll give you Craig Anderson.

I'd really like to hear a reasonable explanation as to why this idea doesn't work. As I said initially, "the draft is over" does not sufficiently discount all that I've outlined. Altering the points in this way is the most appropriate thing to do, as it does not affect when goalie were drafted and it provides them with sufficient, albeit minimal value.

if 85% of the drafters cant read the scoring rules properly then they deserve to waste early picks on goalies.
everyone should have known the scoring beforehand, it was posted right on the fantrax website.

so because some people arent able to adapt to the scoring system used we should change it? thats Dung

A i wasn't noticed of the draft till draft day so therefore didn't get time to read any rules, B: since it was the same as last year why would we change any of the point system. that last part is what I find the most obvious. why oh why did we change anything over last year?

how fast things can change... finally perry amd Bobby ryan light a fire uner their asses and I jump up to second place

yeah big night for those 2

cash wrote:I'm open to trading Spezza, Sedin and Richards. PM if you have interest.

Spezza still available ?

Possible Change to Fantasy Pool

As it stands right now, when you try and call a guy up from reserves or switch an active player with a reserve player, it takes a week to process. This was just the basic setting and something I over looked when setting it up. I would like to change it so you can make changes every day and they would be processed right away.

If anyone has any objections to this then I wont change it, if your ok with it make a quick post below.

Thanks,
S4

im ok with this provided that everyone in the pool agrees

I'm Ok with this.

Okay with it as well - and SG won't care, so count her in.

sens4win wrote:

cash wrote:I'm open to trading Spezza, Sedin and Richards. PM if you have interest.

Spezza still available ?

Wut u Got!?

But seriously, I'll move anyone. Gimme the right offer...

sens4win wrote:Possible Change to Fantasy Pool

As it stands right now, when you try and call a guy up from reserves or switch an active player with a reserve player, it takes a week to process. This was just the basic setting and something I over looked when setting it up. I would like to change it so you can make changes every day and they would be processed right away.

If anyone has any objections to this then I wont change it, if your ok with it make a quick post below.

Thanks,
S4

My only objection is that it means you have to work your roster day-in, day-out. Missing one day could be the difference between winning and losing. i.e. if there are three games on the sched and none of my active players are playing and I forget to sub in my reserve, who then puts up 3+2 and gets the 1st star, I'll have lost out on important points.

I'm not sure it's reason enough to not change the setup, but it's definitely something to consider...