The Official 2011 Tank Nation thread

SpezDispenser wrote:

shabbs wrote:He's simply trading assets that are in demand. That's about it.

Not a real housecleaning yet... more of a salary cleaning.

Yeah, precisely. 4.2 for Fisher? Not right now thanks. We have a ton of young guys who want to smack the puck around. Fisher had 22 goals or whatever last year, but he also played 20+ minutes a night, including PP1 and PK1 (can't hurt). Put Z.Smith in his skates for the year and see how many goals he can get. I'd say it'd be close to 20.

Whoa, slow down SD. We all thought Regin and Foligno would have break out years, so let's slow down on predicting 20 goals for Zach Smith. I just want to see his game progress next year.

Oglethorpe wrote:Whoa, slow down SD. We all thought Regin and Foligno would have break out years, so let's slow down on predicting 20 goals for Zach Smith. I just want to see his game progress next year.

All I really meant is that I got the impression that Fisher was playing 2C with us this year primarily as a checker and that his production can be replaced internally for much less.

Z Smith is not even close to Fisher's level, on any facet. Let's calm down on the silly predictions. He's a 4th liner and most teams have a player like him on their 4th line. If we have a Z Smith on the top 6 we are most definitely still a bottom 3 team in the league.

marakh wrote:Z Smith is not even close to Fisher's level, on any facet. Let's calm down on the silly predictions. He's a 4th liner and most teams have a player like him on their 4th line. If we have a Z Smith on the top 6 we are most definitely still a bottom 3 team in the league.

Forget the 20 goal talk, what Fisher brought to the table is easily replaced by Z.Smith. He might not end the year with as many goals as Fisher would, but Z.Smith plays a real similar game.

SpezDispenser wrote:

marakh wrote:Z Smith is not even close to Fisher's level, on any facet. Let's calm down on the silly predictions. He's a 4th liner and most teams have a player like him on their 4th line. If we have a Z Smith on the top 6 we are most definitely still a bottom 3 team in the league.

Forget the 20 goal talk, what Fisher brought to the table is easily replaced by Z.Smith. He might not end the year with as many goals as Fisher would, but Z.Smith plays a real similar game.

Do you think he can PK 5 on 3? Win the last face off on a one goal game in the last seconds? Shutdown the other team's best line for 20+ minutes?
FIsher was overpaid by 1 million at most, Z Smith is exactly paid what he should be making.

SpezDispenser wrote:

marakh wrote:Z Smith is not even close to Fisher's level, on any facet. Let's calm down on the silly predictions. He's a 4th liner and most teams have a player like him on their 4th line. If we have a Z Smith on the top 6 we are most definitely still a bottom 3 team in the league.

Forget the 20 goal talk, what Fisher brought to the table is easily replaced by Z.Smith. He might not end the year with as many goals as Fisher would, but Z.Smith plays a real similar game.

WTF are you smoking? (eheh ... I've been looking for a reason to say that). Honestly, I don't think that Fisher and Smith are interchangeable (even if I do forget the 20 goals - which, really, you can't). That being said, trading fisher was the right thing to do

marakh wrote:
Do you think he can PK 5 on 3? Win the last face off on a one goal game in the last seconds? Shutdown the other team's best line for 20+ minutes?
FIsher was overpaid by 1 million at most, Z Smith is exactly paid what he should be making.

I don't know if he can. I agree, not to the degree that Fisher can, but the way Fisher's played this year, I think Z.Smith can do a pretty good impression. Or Winchester when he comes back, he was playing a very sound game pre-injury.

TheAvatar wrote:
WTF are you smoking? (eheh ... I've been looking for a reason to say that). Honestly, I don't think that Fisher and Smith are interchangeable (even if I do forget the 20 goals - which, really, you can't). That being said, trading fisher was the right thing to do

Haha, I can't really even argue my stance except to say that I think Z.Smith has some untapped offensive potential. I see nice glimpses of it - I could be wrong, but he gets sold short in that area.

SpezDispenser, you are reaching IMO as well. Same way you were at the start of this season with Regin.

I think you really do over-value most some of our prospects and under-rate the term "prospect" and what it takes for them to make an impact in the NHL.

It is not easy.

Although roughly 5 years ago, players like Fisher get nominated for the Selke for a reason.

marakh wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

marakh wrote:Z Smith is not even close to Fisher's level, on any facet. Let's calm down on the silly predictions. He's a 4th liner and most teams have a player like him on their 4th line. If we have a Z Smith on the top 6 we are most definitely still a bottom 3 team in the league.

Forget the 20 goal talk, what Fisher brought to the table is easily replaced by Z.Smith. He might not end the year with as many goals as Fisher would, but Z.Smith plays a real similar game.

Do you think he can PK 5 on 3? Win the last face off on a one goal game in the last seconds? Shutdown the other team's best line for 20+ minutes?
FIsher was overpaid by 1 million at most, Z Smith is exactly paid what he should be making.

That is a great post IMO. I couldn't have said it better.

SpezDispenser wrote:

TheAvatar wrote:
WTF are you smoking? (eheh ... I've been looking for a reason to say that). Honestly, I don't think that Fisher and Smith are interchangeable (even if I do forget the 20 goals - which, really, you can't). That being said, trading fisher was the right thing to do

Haha, I can't really even argue my stance except to say that I think Z.Smith has some untapped offensive potential. I see nice glimpses of it - I could be wrong, but he gets sold short in that area.

In junior, he was a go to guy and the leader of his team. He may grow into something like that at the NHL level, but he's a long way away. He does have the potential though I believe.

marakh wrote:Do you think he can PK 5 on 3? Win the last face off on a one goal game in the last seconds? Shutdown the other team's best line for 20+ minutes?
FIsher was overpaid by 1 million at most, Z Smith is exactly paid what he should be making.

If there's one player to be used in a situation like that, it's gotta be Spezza. He is (and was when Fisher was here) by far our best FO man.

hemlock wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

TheAvatar wrote:
WTF are you smoking? (eheh ... I've been looking for a reason to say that). Honestly, I don't think that Fisher and Smith are interchangeable (even if I do forget the 20 goals - which, really, you can't). That being said, trading fisher was the right thing to do

Haha, I can't really even argue my stance except to say that I think Z.Smith has some untapped offensive potential. I see nice glimpses of it - I could be wrong, but he gets sold short in that area.

In junior, he was a go to guy and the leader of his team. He may grow into something like that at the NHL level, but he's a long way away. He does have the potential though I believe.

I agree. I think he has an underrated wrister. You sometimes see it on his breakaways, and some of his shots. At first I thought he was God-awfully slow, but after watching him a bit more, I think it's just the way he skates, makes him look slower than he is.

I think he has some deceptive talent, although he has not realized all of it yet. He's certainly playing better now that he's getting more playing time. He's hitting a lot more which is good, and has looked really good, with some solid aggression on the penalty kill.

I think Greening is a guy who could surprise us in the future. Although he probably needs a little more time in the AHL. Also for him to succeed, I think he'll need the playing time of being a 3rd liner.

CockRoche wrote:SpezDispenser, you are reaching IMO as well. Same way you were at the start of this season with Regin.

I think you really do over-value most some of our prospects and under-rate the term "prospect" and what it takes for them to make an impact in the NHL.

It is not easy.

Although roughly 5 years ago, players like Fisher get nominated for the Selke for a reason.

Regin had more opportunity of working than it did of failing, what makes you say that? I see some potential in Smith to be a replacement for Fisher/Kelly on the 3rd line - and I think he might get 20 - or close to it in the not too distant future.

Bass Destruction wrote:
I agree. I think he has an underrated wrister. You sometimes see it on his breakaways, and some of his shots. At first I thought he was God-awfully slow, but after watching him a bit more, I think it's just the way he skates, makes him look slower than he is.

I think he has some deceptive talent, although he has not realized all of it yet. He's certainly playing better now that he's getting more playing time. He's hitting a lot more which is good, and has looked really good, with some solid aggression on the penalty kill.

I think Greening is a guy who could surprise us in the future. Although he probably needs a little more time in the AHL. Also for him to succeed, I think he'll need the playing time of being a 3rd liner.

Yeah, I think it's a combo of a nasty wrister, the ability for Smith to get it off quickly and his desire to crash the net all mixed into one.

EDIT: There was a poster on HF who said that Greening was on par or better than Kelly - and he's apparently a massive B-Sens fan, so he's really closely followed both of them.

SpezDispenser wrote:

CockRoche wrote:SpezDispenser, you are reaching IMO as well. Same way you were at the start of this season with Regin.

I think you really do over-value most some of our prospects and under-rate the term "prospect" and what it takes for them to make an impact in the NHL.

It is not easy.

Although roughly 5 years ago, players like Fisher get nominated for the Selke for a reason.

Regin had more opportunity of working than it did of failing, what makes you say that? I see some potential in Smith to be a replacement for Fisher/Kelly on the 3rd line - and I think he might get 20 - or close to it in the not too distant future.

Fair enough, but you are back-tracking quite a bit from the original post I read, claiming Smith can replace Fisher now.

I may have read it wrong though, that is entirely possible. My memory may also serve me wrong on your Regin predictions.

Meh, just don't get to worked up with Smith quite yet; at least not until he is a focal point within the community. Haha.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Bass Destruction wrote:
I agree. I think he has an underrated wrister. You sometimes see it on his breakaways, and some of his shots. At first I thought he was God-awfully slow, but after watching him a bit more, I think it's just the way he skates, makes him look slower than he is.

I think he has some deceptive talent, although he has not realized all of it yet. He's certainly playing better now that he's getting more playing time. He's hitting a lot more which is good, and has looked really good, with some solid aggression on the penalty kill.

I think Greening is a guy who could surprise us in the future. Although he probably needs a little more time in the AHL. Also for him to succeed, I think he'll need the playing time of being a 3rd liner.

Yeah, I think it's a combo of a nasty wrister, the ability for Smith to get it off quickly and his desire to crash the net all mixed into one.

EDIT: There was a poster on HF who said that Greening was on par or better than Kelly - and he's apparently a massive B-Sens fan, so he's really closely followed both of them.

There's more to his game that I like as well. He'll go into the dirty areas, he'll take a hit to make a play, and he stands up for his teammates. I see him as a Chris Neil type (who probably won't fight as much), with more scoring upside. He's a guy I can see being near the team lead at some point in PK time, blocks (by forwards), PIMs all while contributing potentially20 goals.

hemlock wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Bass Destruction wrote:
I agree. I think he has an underrated wrister. You sometimes see it on his breakaways, and some of his shots. At first I thought he was God-awfully slow, but after watching him a bit more, I think it's just the way he skates, makes him look slower than he is.

I think he has some deceptive talent, although he has not realized all of it yet. He's certainly playing better now that he's getting more playing time. He's hitting a lot more which is good, and has looked really good, with some solid aggression on the penalty kill.

I think Greening is a guy who could surprise us in the future. Although he probably needs a little more time in the AHL. Also for him to succeed, I think he'll need the playing time of being a 3rd liner.

Yeah, I think it's a combo of a nasty wrister, the ability for Smith to get it off quickly and his desire to crash the net all mixed into one.

EDIT: There was a poster on HF who said that Greening was on par or better than Kelly - and he's apparently a massive B-Sens fan, so he's really closely followed both of them.

There's more to his game that I like as well. He'll go into the dirty areas, he'll take a hit to make a play, and he stands up for his teammates. I see him as a Chris Neil type (who probably won't fight as much), with more scoring upside. He's a guy I can see being near the team lead at some point in PK time, blocks (by forwards), PIMs all while contributing potentially20 goals.

That's what I like about his game as well, he does everything well with good size and speed.

He has been fighting a lot more in Bingo lately, maybe he is starting to feel more comfortable with that part of his game as well.

I will gladly take a wait and see approach with him. Hopefully we get the chance.