OFFSEASON TALK: Forwards!

Urkie wrote:

N4L wrote:So you dont build your team around a 7 million dollar player? That statement in itself should tell you exactly what's wrong.

You trade Spezza because you dont want a guy like him, that's the point. In no way would Murray or any GM try and replace Spezza with another guy who is all offense and nothing else (3 years of a drop in production too). A number 1 center has to be more then what Spezza is, well, at least to win.

Anyways, like I said before, The Sens wont win anything with Spezza. Nothing to say otherwise, I just feel sorry for people who actually believe that's the guy who is going to lead this team, just so neive.

I would much rather have a competitve team then a lottery team and trading Spezza away would signal a rebuild. We don't need a friggen rebuild and I think if you surround Spezza with some talent that he will shine. Nobody can get it done on their own, nobody. All the best teams have had more then one good center. You act like it's all about one player and that Spezza can't be a go to guy yet he has never had support beyond his own line.

I'm not going to sit here and say Spezza is flawless or anything like that because he's got his faults. He's dissapeared in the past when it mattered but truly great teams have somebody that can pick up the slack and take the pressure off of guys.

I'll give you an example in these very playoffs. Joe Thornton and Joe Pavelski. Thornton has never had a true threat beyond his line either and all of the sudden Pavelski starts lighting it up and Thornton is playing great hockey in the playoffs for once. Coincidence? I don't think so.

You realize The Sens 2nd line out produced the first line right? That's a BS arguement in Ottawa because it has nothing to do wiht Spezza's effort level or the way he plays the game. He has absolutely disapeared in the last 3 series Ottawa has been in and his efforts were anything but great.

You say surround him with tallent... he's been surrounded by tallent his entire frigging career. Also, him making 7 million dollars kinf of hampers their ability to go out and get a big time winger, you do that or you just totally ignore what actually wins you games, goaltending and defense.

I love how people think dealing Spezza would mean a total rebuild, no, that's wrong. It indicates a change in direction. Dealing Alfi would signal a rebuild, dealing Phillips would signal a rebuild, not Spezza. Just because you deal that guy doesnt mean The Sens are a lotto team. Do people truly believe having Spezza for basically 1/3 of the season is the difference between 2nd last and 5th place? Hope not because that is false in big way.

If the best thing you can say about your number 1 center making 7 million a year is "well, he's ok" or "it's not all his fault" then you're screwed. Never once have I ever said to myself "thank God we have Spezza because there is no way we are anywgere without him" or "he's really put this team on his back".

I still find it amazing how many people hold out hope for the guy when he's actually given them no reason at all too. The guy is all talk and all flash, no substance at all and if they move forward with Spezza they better be damned sure he can be a leader, a guy that can be trusted on and off the ice, and earn his money. So far he hasnt been any of that.

The Spezza excuses need to stop, he's been in The NHL for almost a decade and hasnt turned into what he should have by now and at his age now, it's debatable whether or not he can even improve his game. Can't teach an old dog new trips, defently cant teach a dumb one.

N4L wrote:

Urkie wrote:

N4L wrote:So you dont build your team around a 7 million dollar player? That statement in itself should tell you exactly what's wrong.

You trade Spezza because you dont want a guy like him, that's the point. In no way would Murray or any GM try and replace Spezza with another guy who is all offense and nothing else (3 years of a drop in production too). A number 1 center has to be more then what Spezza is, well, at least to win.

Anyways, like I said before, The Sens wont win anything with Spezza. Nothing to say otherwise, I just feel sorry for people who actually believe that's the guy who is going to lead this team, just so neive.

I would much rather have a competitve team then a lottery team and trading Spezza away would signal a rebuild. We don't need a friggen rebuild and I think if you surround Spezza with some talent that he will shine. Nobody can get it done on their own, nobody. All the best teams have had more then one good center. You act like it's all about one player and that Spezza can't be a go to guy yet he has never had support beyond his own line.

I'm not going to sit here and say Spezza is flawless or anything like that because he's got his faults. He's dissapeared in the past when it mattered but truly great teams have somebody that can pick up the slack and take the pressure off of guys.

I'll give you an example in these very playoffs.Joe Thornton and Joe Pavelski. Thornton has never had a true threat beyond his line either and all of the sudden Pavelski starts lighting it up and Thornton is playing great hockey in the playoffs for once. Coincidence? I don't think so.

You realize The Sens 2nd line out produced the first line right? That's a BS arguement in Ottawa because it has nothing to do wiht Spezza's effort level or the way he plays the game. He has absolutely disapeared in the last 3 series Ottawa has been in and his efforts were anything but great.

You say surround him with tallent... he's been surrounded by tallent his entire frigging career. Also, him making 7 million dollars kinf of hampers their ability to go out and get a big time winger, you do that or you just totally ignore what actually wins you games, goaltending and defense.

I love how people think dealing Spezza would mean a total rebuild, no, that's wrong. It indicates a change in direction. Dealing Alfi would signal a rebuild, dealing Phillips would signal a rebuild, not Spezza. Just because you deal that guy doesnt mean The Sens are a lotto team. Do people truly believe having Spezza for basically 1/3 of the season is the difference between 2nd last and 5th place? Hope not because that is false in big way.

If the best thing you can say about your number 1 center making 7 million a year is "well, he's ok" or "it's not all his fault" then you're screwed. Never once have I ever said to myself "thank God we have Spezza because there is no way we are anywgere without him" or "he's really put this team on his back".

I still find it amazing how many people hold out hope for the guy when he's actually given them no reason at all too. The guy is all talk and all flash, no substance at all and if they move forward with Spezza they better be damned sure he can be a leader, a guy that can be trusted on and off the ice, and earn his money. So far he hasnt been any of that.

The Spezza excuses need to stop, he's been in The NHL for almost a decade and hasnt turned into what he should have by now and at his age now, it's debatable whether or not he can even improve his game. Can't teach an old dog new trips, defently cant teach a dumb one.

you see that goal he scored against Vancouver??

DirtyDave wrote:

you see that goal he scored against Vancouver??

That's pretty much it right there, haha. You see the things he does with the puck and ya, it's amazing sometimes but people tend to forget there are 22 other players that actually have to follow his lead and be able to depend on him.

People say he's a number 1 center, fine, I dont disagree entirely. With that said, a number 1 center has to be dependable, reliable, hard working, unselfish, and a good two way player. Spezza might be one or two of those things, but that's it.

He is the only guy remaining from that little click of players that Ottawa had in Emery, Heatley, McGrttan, Meszaros, and Schubert. There are two reasons he is still here, 1) Heatley asked for a trade first. 2) He had too much tallent to just throw out the door even though it almost happend. Not so much now when Ottawa is building from the back end out.

I agree that it doesn't necessarily signal a rebuild if he's delt.. healtey was delt and the sens were a better team for it... Spezza does have skill and he is good.. is he over paid? ya.. but so is Fisher. I think BM trades him before the trade window is closed.. if not he keeps him and we all move on.. I do have to say it didn't hurt Regin's development playing on a line with Spezza.

Is it time to start pointing fingers at the Sens training staff? How long has Randy Lee not been in charge of that?

Serious question here: This year's playoffs we go into it with Kuba on the shelf, Kovalev on the shelf, Alfie playing with a abdominal tear, Phillips playing on two mashed up feet. The last playoffs we went in missing Fisher, Kelly and Alfie. Does some of this fall on the training staff? Is it really just a lot of bad luck the last two playoff years?

DirtyDave wrote:I agree that it doesn't necessarily signal a rebuild if he's delt.. healtey was delt and the sens were a better team for it... Spezza does have skill and he is good.. is he over paid? ya.. but so is Fisher. I think BM trades him before the trade window is closed.. if not he keeps him and we all move on.. I do have to say it didn't hurt Regin's development playing on a line with Spezza.

Thanks. I wasn't sure what his options were.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Is it time to start pointing fingers at the Sens training staff? How long has Randy Lee not been in charge of that?

Serious question here: This year's playoffs we go into it with Kuba on the shelf, Kovalev on the shelf, Alfie playing with a abdominal tear, Phillips playing on two mashed up feet. The last playoffs we went in missing Fisher, Kelly and Alfie. Does some of this fall on the training staff? Is it really just a lot of bad luck the last two playoff years?

What would you like the training staff to do? Maybe later they can get a virgin preggers after they use their devine healing powers? The Sens were for a long time one of the most well conditioned team in The NHL until Heatley, Spezza, Emery, and McGrattan came into the fold. Look at what Alfi and Chara turned into under Lee, amazing really.

N4L wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Is it time to start pointing fingers at the Sens training staff? How long has Randy Lee not been in charge of that?

Serious question here: This year's playoffs we go into it with Kuba on the shelf, Kovalev on the shelf, Alfie playing with a abdominal tear, Phillips playing on two mashed up feet. The last playoffs we went in missing Fisher, Kelly and Alfie. Does some of this fall on the training staff? Is it really just a lot of bad luck the last two playoff years?

What would you like the training staff to do? Maybe later they can get a virgin preggers after they use their devine healing powers? The Sens were for a long time one of the most well conditioned team in The NHL until Heatley, Spezza, Emery, and McGrattan came into the fold. Look at what Alfi and Chara turned into under Lee, amazing really.

It's a question. Perhaps there is something to it is all I'm saying. I'm not flat out blaming the training staff I'm just wondering if it could be an issue.

And your point about what Chara and Alfie turned into under Lee only makes me wonder further since Lee moved up and out of the conditioning role he was in.

I dont think you or most people realize just what kind of effect SPezza, Heatley, Emery, and the rest had on The Sens and the overall organization. These guys were absolutely the biggest cancer Ottawa has ever seen together. Hell, 2 of those guys might not even be in The NHL after this year ever again.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

DirtyDave wrote:I agree that it doesn't necessarily signal a rebuild if he's delt.. healtey was delt and the sens were a better team for it... Spezza does have skill and he is good.. is he over paid? ya.. but so is Fisher. I think BM trades him before the trade window is closed.. if not he keeps him and we all move on.. I do have to say it didn't hurt Regin's development playing on a line with Spezza.

Thanks. I wasn't sure what his options were.

you're just mad cause 80%+ of members think you're obsessed with polls

DirtyDave wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

DirtyDave wrote:I agree that it doesn't necessarily signal a rebuild if he's delt.. healtey was delt and the sens were a better team for it... Spezza does have skill and he is good.. is he over paid? ya.. but so is Fisher. I think BM trades him before the trade window is closed.. if not he keeps him and we all move on.. I do have to say it didn't hurt Regin's development playing on a line with Spezza.

Thanks. I wasn't sure what his options were.

you're just mad cause 80%+ of members think you're obsessed with polls

Perhaps I should put a poll up on what Murray could do with Spezza? Keep him or trade him?

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

DirtyDave wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

DirtyDave wrote:I agree that it doesn't necessarily signal a rebuild if he's delt.. healtey was delt and the sens were a better team for it... Spezza does have skill and he is good.. is he over paid? ya.. but so is Fisher. I think BM trades him before the trade window is closed.. if not he keeps him and we all move on.. I do have to say it didn't hurt Regin's development playing on a line with Spezza.

Thanks. I wasn't sure what his options were.

you're just mad cause 80%+ of members think you're obsessed with polls

Perhaps I should put a poll up on what Murray could do with Spezza? Keep him or trade him?

Risky business. I don't think anyone has dared ask that question up to this point.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

DirtyDave wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

DirtyDave wrote:I agree that it doesn't necessarily signal a rebuild if he's delt.. healtey was delt and the sens were a better team for it... Spezza does have skill and he is good.. is he over paid? ya.. but so is Fisher. I think BM trades him before the trade window is closed.. if not he keeps him and we all move on.. I do have to say it didn't hurt Regin's development playing on a line with Spezza.

Thanks. I wasn't sure what his options were.

you're just mad cause 80%+ of members think you're obsessed with polls

Perhaps I should put a poll up on what Murray could do with Spezza? Keep him or trade him?

Risky business. I don't think anyone has dared ask that question up to this point.

Indeed. Maybe I should just put up a poll of what Murray's options are and let people decide what they think Murray will do. What were those options again Dave?

jerk

N4L wrote:I dont think you or most people realize just what kind of effect SPezza, Heatley, Emery, and the rest had on The Sens and the overall organization. These guys were absolutely the biggest cancer Ottawa has ever seen together. Hell, 2 of those guys might not even be in The NHL after this year ever again.

Spezza played 1/2 this season with a toren trapizius

DirtyDave wrote:jerk

I gave you a plus for being a good sport.

I seriously have no clue what direction The Sens go in from here on out. Do they just build the young core that Murray has built? IE Karlsson, Regin, Butler, Weircoich, Cowen, Gryba, Greening, Michalek, and other guys he himself has picked up or does he try and go for it? You need guys like Alfi, Phillips, Cullen, Kelly, Carkner, and Neil around for that.

Who knows, but I just cant see them putting up with Spezza for 5 more years after this. The risk/reward with an active NTC is pretty low.

DirtyDave wrote:

N4L wrote:I dont think you or most people realize just what kind of effect SPezza, Heatley, Emery, and the rest had on The Sens and the overall organization. These guys were absolutely the biggest cancer Ottawa has ever seen together. Hell, 2 of those guys might not even be in The NHL after this year ever again.

Spezza played 1/2 this season with a toren trapizius

That's fine and truth be told, I didnt mind his game the first 20 or so games of the season and I think everyone can agree that Spezza was playing hurt for sure, I wont deny that despite no real reports coming out on it.

That said, Spezza hasnt been able to stay healthy for pretty much his entire career. Back issues only get worse, that is indeed another reason to look at his long term future and decide if he can stay healthy, and if he cant can he play through it and play well.

This year is a perfect example of that. He played trough soreness but was he effective? No, he wasnt. People say "well when he's healthy he's great". We'll leave that point as is and there is some truth to it, how often is he healthy? 30 games a year? The other 50 he is either injured or ineffective. The Sens basically paid 7 million dollars for 28 games this year, give or take.

Soooo many things you have to consider with Spezza in the next 6 weeks. Is this team competitive without him? Can he stay healthy? Can he be more concistant? Can he be trusted on the ice? Has he peaked? Is his heart in Ottawa? Can you build a team around him? Can he be a leader? Is he respected enough to be a 1st line center in Ottawa? I would say most of those question start and end with "I dont really know".