S.Kostitsyn to Hamilton

I'm actually surprised he is still there. Gainey should have traded him before the start of training camp, because if his brother doesn't produce, I can already hear the MTL media whining about it.

N4L wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

N4L wrote:Stats say very little about how well or poorly a guy has played in hockey. Fantasy league's are cute and all but the actual production in real life doenst mean anything if your team doesnt win.

Stats can help support a point of view. I'd be interested to know what Alfie's stats were for give-aways this pre-season because in the Boston game it looked like he gave it away a few times in his own zone which is uncharacteristic of Alfie and as Prages said - we shouldn't judge veteran players on pre-season performance.

Ummm, Alfi gives the puck away a lot. He just doesnt do it in bad spots. Always has, always will.

Pre-season is what it is, it's to get ready for the season. That includes practice which is more important then actual games in terms of judging performance and learning the system and improving as a player. I have not seen one stat on good practice vs bad practice, ever.

Why did The Sens suck the last couple of years? It's not because of production from the top line guys, they were 1, 2, 3 in scoring last year and the year before. It's because of their overall work ethic which starts in practice.

Like I said, if you're looking at the box score and basing your opinion on the game, on that, then alright... means very little in the grand scheme of things.

I've seen Alfie give the puck away and I agree with you about him normally not giving it up in bad areas of the ice. When I went to the Boston game I saw him give the puck away twice in his own zone, on the same shift, once in front of the Sens net and a second time right at his blue line which I'm pretty sure are bad spots.

I was only trying to say that his performance was uncharacteristic of his usual play and I didn't mention stats on it I was actually curious how he did in other games in that regard. I also take zero stock in his performance in pre-season because he's a veteran. Which was the point I was trying to emphasize.

N4L wrote:Stats say very little about how well or poorly a guy has played in hockey. Fantasy league's are cute and all but the actual production in real life doenst mean anything if your team doesnt win.

Especially during pre-season when it's every man for himself and more about individual performance than team performance.

Exactly guys. All I was saying is stats tell very little at the best of times. Pre-season it's a joke. Some people will never understand that which is fine.

N4L wrote:

wprager wrote:

N4L wrote:Stats say very little about how well or poorly a guy has played in hockey. Fantasy league's are cute and all but the actual production in real life doenst mean anything if your team doesnt win.

True. But there was also the statement that Andrei did not have a very good camp. The stats support that. Bottom line in hockey, production is what counts, and that is stats. I only looked at a very small subset of all stats (there's hits, blocked shots, takeaways, giveaways, PK time, etc.) I believe that looking at a wider set (if it was available) *will* give you a much better correlation to how well a player is playing. But without the benefit of seeing many of those games, and without having all the stats available (pre-season stats are hard to find) I can only do what I can only do, right?

So, with all that out of the way, are you going to say that Andrei had a better pre-season than Sergei?

I don't think I could disagree with that any more if I actually wanted to.

So, what you are saying, then, is that you don't want to disagree with it.

N4L wrote:Stats say very little about how well or poorly a guy has played in hockey. Fantasy league's are cute and all but the actual production in real life doenst mean anything if your team doesnt win.

Production can contribute to a win. There are stats (not kept for pre-season games, at least none that I could find) for clutch performances (game tying, game-winning goals and assists).

Don't sell the idea of stats short just because you haven't found a good implementation. Even so, with all the stats I'd mentioned (and all the other ones I haven't) you are right -- they do not tell the whole story. But, I'll stress this again -- since I cannot watch every single game out there (not even for just one team -- hey, it's not my job) I can only go on stats. I understand that they don't tell teh whole story, and because of that I do not put 100% trust into the story the limited stats I have are telling. However to completely dismiss all stats as irrelevant (by the way, I am not suggesting that this is what your stance is -- is it?) is not the right move either.

There is a correlation between a player's contribution to the team and his stats. It's foolish to argue against that.

Stats are also extremely objective in hockey.

Sure, there is a correlation but hockey is a team sport unlike any other. Team stats are all that matters to be honest.

marakh wrote:I'm actually surprised he is still there. Gainey should have traded him before the start of training camp, because if his brother doesn't produce, I can already hear the MTL media whining about it.

Gainey is Diddled anyways...trading this kid only draws more of the ire from fans and media that are already calling for his head.

MTL will be searching for a new GM by May Imo.

Stats don't tell the whole story anymore than they tell no story at all. I realize some people think that they are all that you need to see to determine a player's worth (as someone argued relating to Heatley), but there is much more that goes into a full 60 minutes than someone's personal stats sheet. You can get 3 points in a game but play poorly.
Conversely, while stats don't tell the whole story, they tell part of it. If you couldn't see the whole game, you certainly get some information from the stats sheet. You can get zero points in a game and still be a solid contributor.

To argue either extreme is absurd, as arguing extremes tends to be.

CCgotITcovered wrote:

marakh wrote:I'm actually surprised he is still there. Gainey should have traded him before the start of training camp, because if his brother doesn't produce, I can already hear the MTL media whining about it.

Gainey is Diddled anyways...trading this kid only draws more of the ire from fans and media that are already calling for his head.

MTL will be searching for a new GM by May Imo.

If Gainey can trade Kostitsyn for a valuable return, he's gonna survive.
It's like when Murray traded Nycholat, a lot of people didn't care, some didn't even know about it. A few months later, that trade has potentially saved, in part, the Sens' end of last season.