UPDATE: Jason Smith retires; door open for Erik Karlsson?

Ya, well Karlsson didnt have Phillips, Redden, Chara, A Train, playing the 1-4 roles. Karlsson has the potential to move out of the rookie role fairly quickly in Ottawa and probably will.

MurderOnIce wrote:I am not sure I agree on Wiercioch. Depends on whether he fills out his frame but I think he is closer than 3 years. If not pushing hard next year, he certainly will be the year after.

MurderOnIce wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:No matter what he isnt going to come in as the number 1, 2, 3, or 4 Dman. Doesnt matter if he starts playing when he is 19, or 27. Karlsson will get PP time and a decent amount of even time strength.

Karlsson getting 12-15 mins a night in Ottawa is more then enough. It's not wasting a year when he is gaining expierence and learning on the job. Doesnt matter when.

You know...sure why not? The only thing that can happen negatively is that Karlsson gets schooled once a week - but that's where Richardson and Clouston can help him - not to mention Phillips and A-Train and Kuba.

Diddle it, if the SEL is not even going to offer Karlsson a spot, stay here, don't leave. The worst scenario (for him) is that he has to live in Bingo for a few months before coming up here as an injury replacement.

Might as well get this party started with our young D.

And Cowen FOR SURE the year after this. Wiercioch is the one who could take 3 more years IMO.

I am not sure I agree on Wiercioch. Depends on whether he fills out his frame but I think he is closer than 3 years. If not pushing hard next year, he certainly will be the year after.

3 D in Ottawa under 21? That's pushing it IMO.

MurderOnIce wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:No matter what he isnt going to come in as the number 1, 2, 3, or 4 Dman. Doesnt matter if he starts playing when he is 19, or 27. Karlsson will get PP time and a decent amount of even time strength.

Karlsson getting 12-15 mins a night in Ottawa is more then enough. It's not wasting a year when he is gaining expierence and learning on the job. Doesnt matter when.

You know...sure why not? The only thing that can happen negatively is that Karlsson gets schooled once a week - but that's where Richardson and Clouston can help him - not to mention Phillips and A-Train and Kuba.

Diddle it, if the SEL is not even going to offer Karlsson a spot, stay here, don't leave. The worst scenario (for him) is that he has to live in Bingo for a few months before coming up here as an injury replacement.

Might as well get this party started with our young D.

And Cowen FOR SURE the year after this. Wiercioch is the one who could take 3 more years IMO.

I am not sure I agree on Wiercioch. Depends on whether he fills out his frame but I think he is closer than 3 years. If not pushing hard next year, he certainly will be the year after.

With Ottawa's Depth, Might as well let him graduate.

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:No matter what he isnt going to come in as the number 1, 2, 3, or 4 Dman. Doesnt matter if he starts playing when he is 19, or 27. Karlsson will get PP time and a decent amount of even time strength.

Karlsson getting 12-15 mins a night in Ottawa is more then enough. It's not wasting a year when he is gaining expierence and learning on the job. Doesnt matter when.

You know...sure why not? The only thing that can happen negatively is that Karlsson gets schooled once a week - but that's where Richardson and Clouston can help him - not to mention Phillips and A-Train and Kuba.

Diddle it, if the SEL is not even going to offer Karlsson a spot, stay here, don't leave. The worst scenario (for him) is that he has to live in Bingo for a few months before coming up here as an injury replacement.

Might as well get this party started with our young D.

And Cowen FOR SURE the year after this. Wiercioch is the one who could take 3 more years IMO.

Karlsson really doesnt need to learn the things he would learn in the SEL, same with the AHL. The NHL is a comination of both those league and obviously then some.

Karlsson is good enough already to get away from a forecheck in the AHL and basically think his way around the ice as opposed to react. SEL, you wont see a NA forecheck coming at him and he will have the time to think and again, no real reaction.

The NHL you have to react and know exactly what to do, when to do it, and how to do it. He wont out smart every player on the ice in the NHL like he would the AHL, he wont have the time to make a play like he would in the SEL. This is just one example but it's the combination of these things he has to learn, not one at a time.

marakh wrote:

MurderOnIce wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:No matter what he isnt going to come in as the number 1, 2, 3, or 4 Dman. Doesnt matter if he starts playing when he is 19, or 27. Karlsson will get PP time and a decent amount of even time strength.

Karlsson getting 12-15 mins a night in Ottawa is more then enough. It's not wasting a year when he is gaining expierence and learning on the job. Doesnt matter when.

You know...sure why not? The only thing that can happen negatively is that Karlsson gets schooled once a week - but that's where Richardson and Clouston can help him - not to mention Phillips and A-Train and Kuba.

Diddle it, if the SEL is not even going to offer Karlsson a spot, stay here, don't leave. The worst scenario (for him) is that he has to live in Bingo for a few months before coming up here as an injury replacement.

Might as well get this party started with our young D.

And Cowen FOR SURE the year after this. Wiercioch is the one who could take 3 more years IMO.

I am not sure I agree on Wiercioch. Depends on whether he fills out his frame but I think he is closer than 3 years. If not pushing hard next year, he certainly will be the year after.

With Ottawa's Depth, Might as well let him graduate.

Can't do that either, it will stall his development. After his softmore year he will come to Bingo in late March, early April after he signs his entry level contract. I don't think it is too complicated what will happen with Wiercoich.

N4L wrote:No matter what he isnt going to come in as the number 1, 2, 3, or 4 Dman. Doesnt matter if he starts playing when he is 19, or 27. Karlsson will get PP time and a decent amount of even time strength.

Karlsson getting 12-15 mins a night in Ottawa is more then enough. It's not wasting a year when he is gaining expierence and learning on the job. Doesnt matter when.

And that 12-15 minutes a night number is conservative. Look here, and filter using last year, the Senators as the team and only looking at D. You'll notice that no regular D averaged less than 17 a game, mainly because we don't have a true, big-time #1 D eating up loads of ice time.

davetherave wrote:

N4L wrote:

asq2 wrote:

davetherave wrote:

asq2 wrote:

davetherave wrote:Right on...Duncan Keith, for example, isn't exactly The Incredible Hulk...Karlsson's a VERY smart and smooth d-man.

Right now, though, Keith is several levels above Karlsson defensively.

Mr. Keith, the Chicago Blackhawks Hockey Club, and I thank you for the compliment.

Duncan Keith right now should be used as an ideal for Karlsson, not a comparable (although I think Karlsson will eventually put up bigger numbers, and still be lesser defensively).

I dont know where you get this "lesser defensivly" thing from. Honestly, there wasnt a more well rounded player on that Swedish team last year then Karlsson. He was better in his own end then Hedman by a larage margin who should be used as a comparable because of the age and the fact they are both entering thier rookie years.

Karlsson will be as reliable as anyone in the league over time defensivly. I look at him as a Scott Niedamayer in the making. I think he is absolutly that good and that well rounded for his age.

I agree with N4L...Karlsson is very Scott Niedermayer-like. Sees the play extremely well and seems to know already how to 'slow down' the game with intelligent puck management.

Of course, how this translates to the NHL is an unknown...but the sooner BM gets Karlsson to Ottawa, the better.

As I have suggested before, a Karlsson-Cowan pairing could be the Sens' contemporary equivalent to the Pronger-Niedermayer or Keith-Seabrook duos.

Those two kids can give Senators fans a lot of reasons to be cheerful.

I don't see any advantage, development wise, to rush Karlsson to Ottawa. If he is good enough to play in the top 4 then he should stay.

Do you really put Keith/Seabrook in the same class as Pronger/Neidermayer? That is a very bold statement.

Exactly, plus Karlsson is going to see A LOT of PP time if The Sens get off to a good start.

N4L wrote:

marakh wrote:

MurderOnIce wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:No matter what he isnt going to come in as the number 1, 2, 3, or 4 Dman. Doesnt matter if he starts playing when he is 19, or 27. Karlsson will get PP time and a decent amount of even time strength.

Karlsson getting 12-15 mins a night in Ottawa is more then enough. It's not wasting a year when he is gaining expierence and learning on the job. Doesnt matter when.

You know...sure why not? The only thing that can happen negatively is that Karlsson gets schooled once a week - but that's where Richardson and Clouston can help him - not to mention Phillips and A-Train and Kuba.

Diddle it, if the SEL is not even going to offer Karlsson a spot, stay here, don't leave. The worst scenario (for him) is that he has to live in Bingo for a few months before coming up here as an injury replacement.

Might as well get this party started with our young D.

And Cowen FOR SURE the year after this. Wiercioch is the one who could take 3 more years IMO.

I am not sure I agree on Wiercioch. Depends on whether he fills out his frame but I think he is closer than 3 years. If not pushing hard next year, he certainly will be the year after.

With Ottawa's Depth, Might as well let him graduate.

Can't do that either, it will stall his development. After his softmore year he will come to Bingo in late March, early April after he signs his entry level contract. I don't think it is too complicated what will happen with Wiercoich.

Didn't it happen before? Guys who graduate from NCAA and jump to NHL right away?

TeamRenzo wrote:

davetherave wrote:

N4L wrote:

asq2 wrote:

davetherave wrote:

asq2 wrote:

davetherave wrote:Right on...Duncan Keith, for example, isn't exactly The Incredible Hulk...Karlsson's a VERY smart and smooth d-man.

Right now, though, Keith is several levels above Karlsson defensively.

Mr. Keith, the Chicago Blackhawks Hockey Club, and I thank you for the compliment.

Duncan Keith right now should be used as an ideal for Karlsson, not a comparable (although I think Karlsson will eventually put up bigger numbers, and still be lesser defensively).

I dont know where you get this "lesser defensivly" thing from. Honestly, there wasnt a more well rounded player on that Swedish team last year then Karlsson. He was better in his own end then Hedman by a larage margin who should be used as a comparable because of the age and the fact they are both entering thier rookie years.

Karlsson will be as reliable as anyone in the league over time defensivly. I look at him as a Scott Niedamayer in the making. I think he is absolutly that good and that well rounded for his age.

I agree with N4L...Karlsson is very Scott Niedermayer-like. Sees the play extremely well and seems to know already how to 'slow down' the game with intelligent puck management.

Of course, how this translates to the NHL is an unknown...but the sooner BM gets Karlsson to Ottawa, the better.

As I have suggested before, a Karlsson-Cowan pairing could be the Sens' contemporary equivalent to the Pronger-Niedermayer or Keith-Seabrook duos.

Those two kids can give Senators fans a lot of reasons to be cheerful.

I don't see any advantage, development wise, to rush Karlsson to Ottawa. If he is good enough to play in the top 4 then he should stay.

Do you really put Keith/Seabrook in the same class as Pronger/Neidermayer? That is a very bold statement.

How is it rushing him if he is ready? No rookie, no matter the age steps in as the 3/4 guy much less the 1/2 guy. Karlsson very well might be in that 3/4 pairing come years end. It's all relative on ice time and situational play.

Karlsson is ready to play in the NHL so people should stop saying "rushing him". It's not. You work your way up from the bottom, not start at the top. Even then he will be seeing 15 mins of ice a night in the NHL and praticing every day with the best in the world.

Not a lot to be concerned about involving Kalrsson in Ottawa.

marakh wrote:

N4L wrote:

marakh wrote:

MurderOnIce wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:No matter what he isnt going to come in as the number 1, 2, 3, or 4 Dman. Doesnt matter if he starts playing when he is 19, or 27. Karlsson will get PP time and a decent amount of even time strength.

Karlsson getting 12-15 mins a night in Ottawa is more then enough. It's not wasting a year when he is gaining expierence and learning on the job. Doesnt matter when.

You know...sure why not? The only thing that can happen negatively is that Karlsson gets schooled once a week - but that's where Richardson and Clouston can help him - not to mention Phillips and A-Train and Kuba.

Diddle it, if the SEL is not even going to offer Karlsson a spot, stay here, don't leave. The worst scenario (for him) is that he has to live in Bingo for a few months before coming up here as an injury replacement.

Might as well get this party started with our young D.

And Cowen FOR SURE the year after this. Wiercioch is the one who could take 3 more years IMO.

I am not sure I agree on Wiercioch. Depends on whether he fills out his frame but I think he is closer than 3 years. If not pushing hard next year, he certainly will be the year after.

With Ottawa's Depth, Might as well let him graduate.

Can't do that either, it will stall his development. After his softmore year he will come to Bingo in late March, early April after he signs his entry level contract. I don't think it is too complicated what will happen with Wiercoich.

Didn't it happen before? Guys who graduate from NCAA and jump to NHL right away?

It does, but that is usually for the smaller guys and late round picks who had a long ways to go before playing pro at any level. Wiercoich is not in that class. The AHL after this year would be the next logical step.

I'd say if he is physically ready next year, that he should just make the jump to the NHL.

PKC wrote:I'd say if he is physically ready next year, that he should just make the jump to the NHL.

If he's physically ready this year he should. Why wouldnt he make the jump this year? If he's ready, he's ready.

So what's all that talk you had last year, saying how in the NCAA he's playing against men. I saw him at the DC and Wiercioch, IMO, was pretty much the class of the defensemen at camp. Yeah, it's an opinion.

I see the only way he's not here next year is if he wants to get his degree.

People who say he isnt ready to take the next step clearly have not watched him play either.

He was a top 5 player at that WJC, I would say top 3. Hodgson was absolutly the best player in that tourny despite not getting the MVP. Falitov and Tavares were right up there with Karlsson as well. Prob a distance 5th was Goncharov for Russia who had a monster tourny.

The only excuse people find to say he "isnt ready" is his size. His size MIGHT be an issue, and thats a huge might based on how smart the kid is, how great of a skater he is, and his overall tallent. Stength and size are two completly differnet things.

wprager wrote:So what's all that talk you had last year, saying how in the NCAA he's playing against men. I saw him at the DC and Wiercioch, IMO, was pretty much the class of the defensemen at camp. Yeah, it's an opinion.

I see the only way he's not here next year is if he wants to get his degree.

He is playing with men, thats why he wont be going through his 4 full years. That doesnt mean he can make the jump instantly to the NHL and he wont. After this NCAA season he will get his feet wet in Bingo, its almost a certainty. How long he stays there is an issue but I would say he spends a season there like Lee did and might get a late season call up next year.

If Ottawa has Karlsson, Cowen, and Wiercoich in the lineup opening day next year, The Sens are in more trouble then anyone can possibly imagine. He might see some action, but he wont crack the lineup over Cowen baring injury.

BooBoo seems to be suggesting that Murray "pushed" Smith to retire... to save cap space etc...

http://www.ottawasun.com/sports/hockey/2009/09/02/10716121.html

and

http://blog.canoe.ca/offtheposts/2009/09/02/nice_of_jason_smith



I guess it was only a matter of time for the conspiracy theorists to come out and play.