Senschirp: "Hartsburg on Thin Ice?"

Neely4Life wrote:Disgusting.

Yup

MurderOnIce wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:DOnt care what anyone says, 4 coahces in less than a year, thats on the players. CKS, Coach Killer Spezza.

Absolutely right. This is a player problem not a caoch problem. That being said if Hartsburg is the fall guy... it better be someone like Torts...

EDIT: The one thing I do blame him for is preaching accountability and never pushing for it.

The only thing? It's a fairly major swing-and-a-miss, though. It's the one thing he promised from the start, and I have not seen significant evidence that he practiced what he preached.

Spezza may not be any good sitting on the bench, but you use the bench and the pressbox as leverage.

RobbyJ wrote:
Why Alfredsson. He could fetch a nice return, why keep a 36 year old declining asset when you are in complete rebuild mode. Please don't respond with "his leadership" because I haven't seen it other than the 2007 finals.

Why Alfredsson? Because he just gave me a puppy! Alfie casts his own shadow!

Sorry for the stupid answer, but it's the only way I know of answering such a question. Some things are more important than "a nice return".

RobbyJ wrote:

hemlock wrote:

MurderOnIce wrote:Something needs to change...

A fair portion of the roster imo.

I'd like to see a decision made on the direction of this club before any coaching decisions are made. If it's a full on rebuild, Hartburg is great with the young players. In that case, I'd like to see him kept. If Melnyk decides to continue this farce and pretend that this club can get it done, bring it a guy like Burns or Torts who will tattoo accountability on the asses of some of these players.

Personally, I vote for a rebuild. We have plenty of valuable pieces to make this a quick turnaround too, if that is the chosen direction. Assuming of course we can convince certain players to waive. If it's a full on rebuild, then there are only two guys currently on the Sens roster that must be retained. Alfredsson and Volchenkov. The rest can go. Heatley isn't a young guy anymore and if he could be convinced to waive, he would get us halfway back in a rebuild mode. If we could manage to deal him say at the deadline, we could fetch as ridiculous return. He wouldn't be a pending UFA, so I would think a minimum of a young roster forward, blue chip prospect and a 2009 1st.

Off the top of my head, using Phoenix as an example, I'd think we could fetch one of Hanzal, Boedker, or Mueller, in addition to a 2009 1st, and a very nice D prospect like Summers or Ross. They've got all the youth they need and Heatley gives them a humungous scoring threat up front, and signed long term.

Why Alfredsson. He could fetch a nice return, why keep a 36 year old declining asset when you are in complete rebuild mode. Please don't respond with "his leadership" because I haven't seen it other than the 2007 finals.

I don't think he wants to leave. He may consider doing a Tchachuk and consent to being a deadline deal somewhere, but he's under contract, so it's not like he could come back the following season. He's a Sen for life.

RobbyJ wrote:
Why Alfredsson. He could fetch a nice return, why keep a 36 year old declining asset when you are in complete rebuild mode. Please don't respond with "his leadership" because I haven't seen it other than the 2007 finals.

Oh boy, we're back to the "ship Alfredsson out of the city" crap.  Disappointing.

Is Dung really that bad that people are talking about trading Alfredsson? Holy Diddle bandwagon nation.....

Alfie's not going anywhere. Melnyk likes him and he likes being here. He'll be a Sen for life and have a job in the organisation after he retires. Like it or not that's how it is.

Well said Clutch, Av and PK.

Alfie is going nowhere... And quite honestly, I don't think he's the problem. Granted, he's not as vocal or LOUD when it comes to his leadership, but I do believe he generally gets the job done.

I truly hate to admit this, but this losing skid the Sens have been on for over a season now has shown me an ugly truth that I NEVER thought existed: some of the Sens fans are unfortunately NO different than Leaf and Hab fans, in the sense that some seem to epitomize Manic fandom: what I mean is one day they are in awe of a player or players and place them in high regard, and after a losing skid or so, they are ready to lynch that or those very same players. I always thought that as fickle as some sens fans can be that, they still never attained the level of bipolar-like behavior we are used to seeing with leaf and hab lovers...sadly, it seems I was mistaken.

To the cool-headed, logical Sens fans out there, I salute you for keeping the faith in a way and not jumping to ridiculous conclusions. Trading SOME players or particular players may make sense given the right deal, but clamoring for ship this guy and this guy rarely solves anything and usually sets the organization back further rather than move them ahead as planned.

These are depressing times in a way, but this is also a team that has won a President's trophy, rised above adversity and I do believe can once again be atop the league soon. It will simply take some patience and some hard work but it can happen.

To be honest I'd much rather see our team do a complete swan dive as opposed to seeing them squeek into the playoffs and get creamed in 4 games by the Bruins. How long has it been since we've been excited about a prospect coming up through the minors? I know we have Karlsson and now Wiercioch seems to be a real strong player as well but I mean a jaw dropper prospect like Havlat (When he was healthy), or Hossa? Spezza was supposed to be that guy wasn't he? Time for some building of the farm.

Cronenbergfan wrote:Well said Clutch, Av and PK.

... and ???

Should I feel slighted?

Cap'n Clutch wrote:To be honest I'd much rather see our team do a complete swan dive as opposed to seeing them squeek into the playoffs and get creamed in 4 games by the Bruins. How long has it been since we've been excited about a prospect coming up through the minors? I know we have Karlsson and now Wiercioch seems to be a real strong player as well but I mean a jaw dropper prospect like Havlat (When he was healthy), or Hossa? Spezza was supposed to be that guy wasn't he? Time for some building of the farm.

Cap, think of it: if they get into the playoffs, they may be squeaking in from a seeding point of view, but they'll be screaming in from a winning record down the stretch point of view. If they make it in, they will have to be the winningest team in the league in the second half.

wprager wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:To be honest I'd much rather see our team do a complete swan dive as opposed to seeing them squeek into the playoffs and get creamed in 4 games by the Bruins. How long has it been since we've been excited about a prospect coming up through the minors? I know we have Karlsson and now Wiercioch seems to be a real strong player as well but I mean a jaw dropper prospect like Havlat (When he was healthy), or Hossa? Spezza was supposed to be that guy wasn't he? Time for some building of the farm.

Cap, think of it: if they get into the playoffs, they may be squeaking in from a seeding point of view, but they'll be screaming in from a winning record down the stretch point of view. If they make it in, they will have to be the winningest team in the league in the second half.

Excellent point. Making the playoffs with our current record would suggest a huge improvement in play and a hot streak. Heating up going into the playoffs is usually where teams want to be, but entering in 7th or 8th spot makes it a pretty tall task.

wprager wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:To be honest I'd much rather see our team do a complete swan dive as opposed to seeing them squeek into the playoffs and get creamed in 4 games by the Bruins. How long has it been since we've been excited about a prospect coming up through the minors? I know we have Karlsson and now Wiercioch seems to be a real strong player as well but I mean a jaw dropper prospect like Havlat (When he was healthy), or Hossa? Spezza was supposed to be that guy wasn't he? Time for some building of the farm.

Cap, think of it: if they get into the playoffs, they may be squeaking in from a seeding point of view, but they'll be screaming in from a winning record down the stretch point of view. If they make it in, they will have to be the winningest team in the league in the second half.

True enough but do you really see them beating Boston in the first round?

TheAvatar wrote:

RobbyJ wrote:
Why Alfredsson. He could fetch a nice return, why keep a 36 year old declining asset when you are in complete rebuild mode. Please don't respond with "his leadership" because I haven't seen it other than the 2007 finals.

Oh boy, we're back to the "ship Alfredsson out of the city" crap. Disappointing.

My response was to the poster who said ship everyone out except Volchenkov and Alfredsson. Thanks to everyone for taking my response out of context. What I was referring to was the absurdity of the original post.

From a pure hockey standpoint, Alfredsson would be the ideal candidate to move. He will decline quickly over the next 4 years and will be eating a fair bit of our cap.

I agree that he should remain a Sen for life, but if you apply that logic then would Phillips not deserve the same respect. Neither player has played up to previous seasons yet this year, but both are pillars of the community and have been great role models, on top of accepting less to stay with the club.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

True enough but do you really see them beating Boston in the first round?

People were saying this about the Sens last November, too, remember?

Just because Boston has had a great 35-game start doesn't mean they'll continue at the same pace all season long. Frankly, I don't see it happening, even though they're a strong team. The simple fact is that every team has it's ups and downs, but BOS hasn't had *any* downs at all yet. And even if they do clean up all season long, it's no guarantee that it will translate into playoff results. Ask Ottawa fans circa 2000-05 and Detroit fans circa 2002-06 about how much cleaning up in the regular season helps in the playoffs.

Teams that storm to the finish line often surprise in the playoffs. Look at 2007. The Sens and the Canucks had the best 2nd half records in the NHL, and they not only secured a playoff spot, but advanced passed the first round. Both teams then ran into a white-hot Ducks team.

Not that I'm holding out for Melnyk's miracle turnaround. I'd need to see a month of good hockey from this club before I'd even let myself start thinking that way. And the way we've been playing lately, even in games we win, I just don't see it happening. But people need some perspective here. Just because one team has been great or awful for the first 35 games of the season doesn't mean that we might as well hand out the trophies now. That's why we play the games. And there are almost always surprises.

I guess we will have to wait for someone's memoires years from now to find out what the deal is on the last year in Ottawa.

I want the truth!!!!

HA

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

wprager wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:To be honest I'd much rather see our team do a complete swan dive as opposed to seeing them squeek into the playoffs and get creamed in 4 games by the Bruins. How long has it been since we've been excited about a prospect coming up through the minors? I know we have Karlsson and now Wiercioch seems to be a real strong player as well but I mean a jaw dropper prospect like Havlat (When he was healthy), or Hossa? Spezza was supposed to be that guy wasn't he? Time for some building of the farm.

Cap, think of it: if they get into the playoffs, they may be squeaking in from a seeding point of view, but they'll be screaming in from a winning record down the stretch point of view. If they make it in, they will have to be the winningest team in the league in the second half.

True enough but do you really see them beating Boston in the first round?

The Leafs had no business beating the Sens in the playoffs all those years. The only reward for regular season success is you get to figure out what all the other teams are looking for at the draft before you need to make up your own mind.

I'm not saying anything other than I'll reserve judgment until I see them (Boston) actually win a couple of rounds.

sennies1980 wrote:I guess we will have to wait for someone's memoires years from now to find out what the deal is on the last year in Ottawa.

I want the truth!!!!

HA

Some here have already published their memoires.

Oh, wait, you said you wanted the truth. Never mind.