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Players were frustrated by Hartsburg's system

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LeCaptain
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dennycrane
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PTFlea

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http://communities.canada.com/ottawacitizen/blogs/duthie/archive/2009/02/02/hartsburg-s-stubborness-frustrated-players.aspx

James Duthie writes a great article here:

Let’s be clear, the Ottawa Senators [were quite upset] Monday when they learned Craig Hartsburg had been fired. They do feel shame. They know Hartsburg is a good man. They know they are now on their fourth coach in less than one season, and are embarrassed at the notion that they have become “uncoachable”.

The Senator players I spoke to Monday took collective responsibility for getting Hartsburg fired. And every one of them called him a “good hockey coach” who they have respect for. They wanted to win for him. They weren’t chest-bumping as he walked out the door.

But they weren’t exactly crying in their Gatorade either. They was a divide between coach and players. When you sit 27th in the standings, there is always a divide.

The problem many Senators had with Hartsburg was his stubbornness. He implemented a system in training camp, and refused to budge from it. Nary a tweak. The players say when things went bad, Hartsburg always believed it was because of “a lack of effort”. There was never any other explanation.

Specifically, the one-man forecheck drove many players nuts. They believe they are at their best as an aggressive team, with 2 men always going hard into the opposition’s end, the way they did during the Cup run two springs ago. Having that second man hang back left them “standing around an awful lot.” Yet they never strayed from it.

The other main beef with Hartsburg was his negativity. Oh, he had plenty to be negative about with this team, that’s for sure. But there were moments where the Senators were desperate for positive reinforcement, and never got it.

They point to a stretch before the All-Star break where they went 3-0-1, and showed signs of making a run. Yet several players say even after the wins, Hartsburg would come into the room and pick out only the mistakes, further eroding their already shaky confidence.

Make no mistake. No one in that room is putting the blame on Craig Hartsburg for the team’s predicament. They are smarter than that. They realize their “coach's fault” excuse ran out about two coaches ago.


I can see that, I really can. I could see the frustration in the overly defensive style they were trying to play, I could see the second man hanging back - but I perceived that as laziness. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. Let's hope that Clouston finds a happy medium between the defensive system that Hartsburg so badly wanted and a system that allows for a little creativity offensively.

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interesting read, thanks for sharing.

Hartsburg will have an NHL job within three years. The question now is, does he go back to the OHL, or take a shot at the A?

PTFlea

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Tukker wrote:interesting read, thanks for sharing.

Hartsburg will have an NHL job within three years. The question now is, does he go back to the OHL, or take a shot at the A?

The A if he wants another shot probably. Guide some team's affiliate to the Cup and then you're good to go. 3 years? Really. I kind of think he'll be lucky to ever be back - and if he does come back it'll be 5+ years.

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504Heater wrote:
Tukker wrote:interesting read, thanks for sharing.

Hartsburg will have an NHL job within three years. The question now is, does he go back to the OHL, or take a shot at the A?

The A if he wants another shot probably. Guide some team's affiliate to the Cup and then you're good to go. 3 years? Really. I kind of think he'll be lucky to ever be back - and if he does come back it'll be 5+ years.
I really believe this experience will better him. It has taught him what works in the O doesnt always work in the pros. He'll probably take the rest of the year off, sign a contract next season, and learn from his mistakes.

He's a good coach.


no, really :D

dennycrane

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Why on Earth would you try and make this team into something it's not? I'm glad he got canned.

Acrobat

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Interesting that one of the comments Clouston made revolved around getting two forwards in and forechecking harder; and that previously, when they were getting the puck, the forwards sometimes were surprised enough that they didn't seem to know what to do with it.

It also may explain some of the perception that they were "standing around" a lot - this remains to be seen, as it should vanish once they shift to a two-man forecheck.

I don't want to lay all, or even most, of the blame on Hartsburgh, but maybe part of the problem lies in the team/players being adamant on going back to a system that they have already been successful with, and Hartsburgh's inability or unwillingness to coach that system. If so, then Clouston may have been chosen purely because he coaches the same system that Murray did on their SCF run.

Also, either Murray has to rebuild a team around that style of play (and know that teams are already prepared for it), or dismantle completely.

LeCaptain

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dennycrane wrote:Why on Earth would you try and make this team into something it's not? I'm glad he got canned.

That's ridiculous IMO. When he got interviewed, he told Murray the kind of system he wants to implement. If you don't want the system, don't hire the coach in the first place.

Cronie

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I have to give props to MacGuire last night when he pointed out that Clouston was smart enough to put the big three out there the second Chara left the ice, and WHAMO, it resulted in a goal!

Pure luck or chance, perhaps, but it was apparent that Wideman couldn't handle them.

While the honeymoon with Clouston can't last forever, I am ECSTATIC that he immediately changed a few things and I hope the players keep listening and buy into what he sells... We've seen the WORST, so I can't possibly sink lower, can it!? Wink

BigRig

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Cronenbergfan wrote:I have to give props to MacGuire last night when he pointed out that Clouston was smart enough to put the big three out there the second Chara left the ice, and WHAMO, it resulted in a goal!

Pure luck or chance, perhaps, but it was apparent that Wideman couldn't handle them.

While the honeymoon with Clouston can't last forever, I am ECSTATIC that he immediately changed a few things and I hope the players keep listening and buy into what he sells... We've seen the WORST, so I can't possibly sink lower, can it!? Wink

one thing I hope he has them working on is penalty shots. I figured but didn't realize it was official that Ottawa is THE WORST Penalty shot team in the league.

How many times have we seen like last night, where we do awesome in the overtime (grat PK last night too!) and then lose the point in a shootout?
...it's going to cost us sooner or later. Elliott stood tall for 5 shooters before the winner without the Sens getting any close chances other than Bell's.

NOTE TO SPEZZA: EVERYBODY KNOWS YOU GO HIGH GLOVE SIDE, if I know it, then so do the goalies you're shooting on! (couldn't help it, I'll go back to thinking positively again).


All in All, good game last night....I thought we really competed, nice game by foligno....see? maybe benching DOES work!

Cap'n Clutch

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BigRig77 wrote:
NOTE TO SPEZZA: EVERYBODY KNOWS YOU GO HIGH GLOVE SIDE, if I know it, then so do the goalies you're shooting on! (couldn't help it, I'll go back to thinking positively again).

True enough but it seems to work for him. He's scored a lot of shootout goals that way.


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BigRig

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Cap'n Clutch wrote:
BigRig77 wrote:
NOTE TO SPEZZA: EVERYBODY KNOWS YOU GO HIGH GLOVE SIDE, if I know it, then so do the goalies you're shooting on! (couldn't help it, I'll go back to thinking positively again).

True enough but it seems to work for him. He's scored a lot of shootout goals that way.

yeah I guess...it was just really obvious that Thomas was ready and waiting for it...

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Cronenbergfan wrote:I have to give props to MacGuire last night when he pointed out that Clouston was smart enough to put the big three out there the second Chara left the ice, and WHAMO, it resulted in a goal!

Pure luck or chance, perhaps, but it was apparent that Wideman couldn't handle them.

While the honeymoon with Clouston can't last forever, I am ECSTATIC that he immediately changed a few things and I hope the players keep listening and buy into what he sells... We've seen the WORST, so I can't possibly sink lower, can it!? Wink

MacGuire was better last night. He had no-one from his man-crush group to dote on though. When he was interviewing Chara he turned a little gay. But when he has AO or Cindy to cover he is so gay he spells fag with a 'PH'.

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marakh wrote:
dennycrane wrote:Why on Earth would you try and make this team into something it's not? I'm glad he got canned.

That's ridiculous IMO. When he got interviewed, he told Murray the kind of system he wants to implement. If you don't want the system, don't hire the coach in the first place.
Whats ridiculous is that he didn't alter the system once...Not once!
He obviously had little-to-no relationship with Alfredsson (who was clearly indifferent in his interviews after the firing) and wasn't communicating with the players. You cannot(!) be an NHL coach and not have a strong working relationship with your Captain.
That and his stubborness about a system that clearly wasn't working are enough reason to fire him. He deserved to lose his job and he's clearly nothing more than a minor league coach.

...

Its fu-cking infuriating to think that he didn't even tweak the system he implemented, despite the constant losing. :x

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MurderOnIce wrote:
Cronenbergfan wrote:I have to give props to MacGuire last night when he pointed out that Clouston was smart enough to put the big three out there the second Chara left the ice, and WHAMO, it resulted in a goal!

Pure luck or chance, perhaps, but it was apparent that Wideman couldn't handle them.

While the honeymoon with Clouston can't last forever, I am ECSTATIC that he immediately changed a few things and I hope the players keep listening and buy into what he sells... We've seen the WORST, so I can't possibly sink lower, can it!? Wink

MacGuire was better last night. He had no-one from his man-crush group to dote on though. When he was interviewing Chara he turned a little gay. But when he has AO or Cindy to cover he is so gay he spells fag with a 'PH'.
ARe you serious? He was ripping on the Sens all night long and creaming all over himself any time Chara did anything...

TheAvatar

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He really pi$$ed me off at the 1st intermission when he was talking about ottawa's 7 shots on goal and what they were doing wrong and so on. He never mentionned that Boston only had 9 frickin' shots AND + a powerplay.

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