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Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

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DefenceWinsChampionships


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Also don't underestimate how good Batherson and Formenton will be.

Hoffman and Karlsson were fast skaters but never did we hear this much about how fast a particular player was. Formenton will be lights out if his hands can keep up with his feet and he adds a bit of size.

As for Batherson the guy can score goals. Watching his highlight reel from last year, he probably could have had another 6-7 goals on breakaways alone. Dorion and Boucher, from what I heard on the radio, think he's the most talented out of all the prospects.

Tkachuk will never be a Crosby. Those expecting him to be will be disappointed. He will put up more points than his brother so 60+ points a season is pretty good for someone of his skillset.

DefenceWinsChampionships


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Veteran
I am also looking forward to a powerplay that doesn't rely on a point-shot or a one-timer from the sideboards every play. I think we will see a much more dynamic offense this year that relies more heavily on the forwards than on shots from the point.

DefenceWinsChampionships


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TGOR also seems to think White is the odd-man-out though I think Batherson will ultimately start this year in Belleville.

Dzingel-Duchene-White/Batherson
Tkachuk-Tierney-Stone
Boedker-Smith-Ryan
Paajarvi-Chlapik-Pyatt

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
Ev wrote:
Flo The Action wrote:I can also see how trading kalrsson could be a good thing. He led on ice by his actions but his actions off the ice weren’t anything special. He’s maybe a little immature for captaincy.

That said it’s the return I’m especially upset about. Winning franchises aren’t built on a bunch of good players but on having a couple/few elite players surrounded by good players.
Ottawa has Chabot that MIGHT be elite one day. Tkachuk could be a star in the making but I don’t think he’ll ever be Elite.
We need Elite level prospects and we got nothing resembling star prospect in that deal.
That’s the problem. And those 1st and second rounders will be late ones.
That’s why I preferred deals with Tampa and Vegas.


I don’t see the 2020 first being a late one

Me neither. I doubt they're even in the top 5 this year for odds of winning the Cup.

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Also don't underestimate how good Batherson and Formenton will be.

Hoffman and Karlsson were fast skaters but never did we hear this much about how fast a particular player was. Formenton will be lights out if his hands can keep up with his feet and he adds a bit of size.

As for Batherson the guy can score goals. Watching his highlight reel from last year, he probably could have had another 6-7 goals on breakaways alone. Dorion and Boucher, from what I heard on the radio, think he's the most talented out of all the prospects.

Tkachuk will never be a Crosby. Those expecting him to be will be disappointed. He will put up more points than his brother so 60+ points a season is pretty good for someone of his skillset.

From all accounts, Brady is not better than Matthew in any regard except maybe grit - and I think him getting to 60 points while providing that debilitating forecheck would be a major win for us. I keep think of someone pointing out to me that Matthews plays a LOT with his head down watching the puck - and you start to think about a guy like Tkachuk who is all about making people pay for that kind of play. Someday those two will meet and Matthews won't win that one.

I agree about Batherson and Formenton, those two look really great right now. It's hard to really analyse anything for fans, but they look like they're gonna be a formidable duo to go with someone like White or Brown down the middle, then you might be able to play Norris with Tkatchuk and Duchene with Stone.

It all comes down to how they adapt obviously and when the Senators can actually do something about their elite level players signing long term.

Lajoie is another kid that looked dynamite on Sunday.

DefenceWinsChampionships


Veteran
Veteran
Matthew was quoted at the draft saying Brady is bigger and better than him.

You're right about Lajoie too. I think he has a chance to play some games at the NHL level this year as an injury call up. He's a LHD so he'll be buried behind Chabot and Wolanin down the road (And Boro and Harpur now) but could be a solid 5-6 PMD one day

DefenceWinsChampionships


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https://nationalpost.com/sports/hockey/u-s-junior-forward-brady-tkachuk-is-exactly-like-his-brother-matthew-just-bigger-faster-and-nastier

SensHulk

SensHulk
All-Star
All-Star
Ev wrote:The majority of fans in this city are moronic, wow. Everyone just believes one side of the story and never the team's side.

Why do you say they're moronic? All the fans can go by is what's presented to them so to say that Karlsson didn't want to be here, well how are you going to prove that? Just cuz he didn't sign a long-term deal? Then you better be saying the same about Duchene and Stone.

What the fans do know is that Dorion and Co. have constantly LIED to them. FFS yesterday that new COO presented some hot garbage takes on the majority of the fanbase being confident in the direction of the sens, and calling the rest making noise a 'minority' (yup, quite the minority that won't be filling 70% of CTC). Dorion again said they made the decision to trade Karlsson in July, to which everyone collectively went 'lol' when they were so close to trading him at the TDL, Bobby Ryan thought he was gone, Karlsson grabbed the puck in his last game, you don't do all these things when you just made the decision to trade Karlsson in July.

I've actually been a defender of Dorion and even Melnyk for several years now, on this forum. After all the lies and deceit, the return for Karlsson was abysmal in value. And yes, this is incompetence when they could have retained much better assets at TDL when NOT saddling Bobby Ryan in the deal. There is nothing positive here, fans have every right to be pissed off, and the majority of them I'd say are actually smart enough to say 'NO MORE BS'

Flo The Action

Flo The Action
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Also don't underestimate how good Batherson and Formenton will be.

Hoffman and Karlsson were fast skaters but never did we hear this much about how fast a particular player was. Formenton will be lights out if his hands can keep up with his feet and he adds a bit of size.

As for Batherson the guy can score goals. Watching his highlight reel from last year, he probably could have had another 6-7 goals on breakaways alone. Dorion and Boucher, from what I heard on the radio, think he's the most talented out of all the prospects.

Tkachuk will never be a Crosby. Those expecting him to be will be disappointed. He will put up more points than his brother so 60+ points a season is pretty good for someone of his skillset.

I absolutely love Formenton. I think he’s immensely exciting to watch and I think he will be a top 6 player in the NHL. Is he a top liner? I’m not sure yet. We have to see him play but so far in the OHL he’s not a guy that was scoring 40 goals so let’s temper expectations for now.

Same could be said for batherson. I want to see these guys play at the NHL level.
As far as Tkachuk I think the hype is getting out of hand. I liked what I’ve seen from him and his playmaking is better than I thought but I didn’t see any filthy skills that would have him stand up much higher than say Formenton. At this moment I prefer Formenton. I said it.
I believe that Tkachuk has the potential to score many goals but I don’t believe they’ll be as pretty as Formenton or Batherson. I want to see him play pro. I would even have him start in the AHL after his 9 games.

It’s nice to want to love what we have here but this team isn’t stocked with any quality D prospects by any stretch of the imagination. And IMO you build from the backend. That’s a major problem for us in this rebuild so far. I would want a stud D man apart from Chabot. I’d even possibly do a trade if we’d have to. I think if there’s a team out there with a top line potential Dman that’s available I’d look into moving a guy like white or possibly Brown.

Flo The Action

Flo The Action
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Franchise Player
DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
Ev wrote:
Flo The Action wrote:I can also see how trading kalrsson could be a good thing. He led on ice by his actions but his actions off the ice weren’t anything special. He’s maybe a little immature for captaincy.

That said it’s the return I’m especially upset about. Winning franchises aren’t built on a bunch of good players but on having a couple/few elite players surrounded by good players.
Ottawa has Chabot that MIGHT be elite one day. Tkachuk could be a star in the making but I don’t think he’ll ever be Elite.
We need Elite level prospects and we got nothing resembling star prospect in that deal.
That’s the problem. And those 1st and second rounders will be late ones.
That’s why I preferred deals with Tampa and Vegas.


I don’t see the 2020 first being a late one

Neither do I.

Shawn Simpson tweeted that Karlsson is going to play out the year in San Jose. In the 2019/20 season, SJ will be without Karlsson, Thornton and probably Pavelski. Not to mention Brent Burns will be turning 35 that year. Those are three pretty big names to be losing and Burns will eventually start losing a step. They may not make the playoffs and are clearly all-in this year.

People need to chill regarding this trade. I know some are butt-hurt by it but with a lock-out potentially coming 8 years of Karlsson @ $11M per season means we'd be potentially paying him until he's 38 years old. Not worth it!!! 4 players of which 2 seem like decent prospects, a 3rd line center who doesn't take penalties and will play 2nd line minutes this year, and a depth d-man + probably a mid 1st rd pick and a 2nd is a good return for 1 year of Karl.

Yeah but the anger isn’t just stemming from this trade. It’s from what led up to this trade! The ownership management group is unqualified to lead a hockey team and that’s what is pissing off fans. I do not trust Melnyk to ever dedicate the ressources this team needs. Nor do I trust Dorion (and his staff) to potentially identify the pieces we need. For every Formenton there’s a Lazar or a Cowen. We have not been and are not a top echelon team in drFting and player development and combine that with the fact that the Sens aren’t swinging the deals that are needed to restock, I do not feel confident that we will conduct a proper rebuild.
And I want to emphasize the poin that this all started out of the failure of Melnyk to commit the proper financial support to acquire or trade for players after we made it to the ECF two years ago. We were in a position where a boost over what we had on top of replacing Methot could have made a huge difference. I was all in for trading some of our prospects to support a trade for duchene (or another left wing player) while keeping Turris. That’s also what the players wanted. So all this starts with Melnyk. I’m ultra pissed at the whole situation.

Flo The Action

Flo The Action
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
Hoff-Machine wrote:
Ev wrote:The majority of fans in this city are moronic, wow. Everyone just believes one side of the story and never the team's side.

Why do you say they're moronic? All the fans can go by is what's presented to them so to say that Karlsson didn't want to be here, well how are you going to prove that? Just cuz he didn't sign a long-term deal? Then you better be saying the same about Duchene and Stone.

What the fans do know is that Dorion and Co. have constantly LIED to them. FFS yesterday that new COO presented some hot garbage takes on the majority of the fanbase being confident in the direction of the sens, and calling the rest making noise a 'minority' (yup, quite the minority that won't be filling 70% of CTC). Dorion again said they made the decision to trade Karlsson in July, to which everyone collectively went 'lol' when they were so close to trading him at the TDL, Bobby Ryan thought he was gone, Karlsson grabbed the puck in his last game, you don't do all these things when you just made the decision to trade Karlsson in July.

I've actually been a defender of Dorion and even Melnyk for several years now, on this forum. After all the lies and deceit, the return for Karlsson was abysmal in value. And yes, this is incompetence when they could have retained much better assets at TDL when NOT saddling Bobby Ryan in the deal. There is nothing positive here, fans have every right to be pissed off, and the majority of them I'd say are actually smart enough to say 'NO MORE BS'

This org thinks it’s fanbase is uneducated about hockey. It’s beyond ridiculous. I have no respect left for the front office. It’s pretty simple at this point. We need a change from the top down. Melnyk needs to go.

Ev

Ev
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
Flo The Action wrote:
Hoff-Machine wrote:
Ev wrote:The majority of fans in this city are moronic, wow. Everyone just believes one side of the story and never the team's side.

Why do you say they're moronic? All the fans can go by is what's presented to them so to say that Karlsson didn't want to be here, well how are you going to prove that? Just cuz he didn't sign a long-term deal? Then you better be saying the same about Duchene and Stone.

What the fans do know is that Dorion and Co. have constantly LIED to them. FFS yesterday that new COO presented some hot garbage takes on the majority of the fanbase being confident in the direction of the sens, and calling the rest making noise a 'minority' (yup, quite the minority that won't be filling 70% of CTC). Dorion again said they made the decision to trade Karlsson in July, to which everyone collectively went 'lol' when they were so close to trading him at the TDL, Bobby Ryan thought he was gone, Karlsson grabbed the puck in his last game, you don't do all these things when you just made the decision to trade Karlsson in July.

I've actually been a defender of Dorion and even Melnyk for several years now, on this forum. After all the lies and deceit, the return for Karlsson was abysmal in value. And yes, this is incompetence when they could have retained much better assets at TDL when NOT saddling Bobby Ryan in the deal. There is nothing positive here, fans have every right to be pissed off, and the majority of them I'd say are actually smart enough to say 'NO MORE BS'

This org thinks it’s fanbase is uneducated about hockey. It’s beyond ridiculous. I have no respect left for the front office. It’s pretty simple at this point. We need a change from the top down. Melnyk needs to go.

They are not wrong. A huge portion of the fanbase is uneducated about hockey. Go to a game and you'll see.

Imagine if this was Cody Ceci being traded and he said things like I wanted to stay, blah blah blah. Everyone would be ripping on him and not believing him. When fans treat certain players like superheroes, that's when problems occur.

Ev

Ev
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Franchise Player
this is exactly the kind of terrible article being spewed by fans these days.


https://www.silversevensens.com/2018/9/17/17871734/the-fall-of-rome

Are people this naive? I wanted Karlsson to stay but if you really think he wanted to stay under Melnyk, you're naive, plain and simple. What else is he going to say in the media? He would never admit that he was going to walk.

SensHulk

SensHulk
All-Star
All-Star
Ev wrote:this is exactly the kind of terrible article being spewed by fans these days.


https://www.silversevensens.com/2018/9/17/17871734/the-fall-of-rome

Are people this naive? I wanted Karlsson to stay but if you really think he wanted to stay under Melnyk, you're naive, plain and simple. What else is he going to say in the media? He would never admit that he was going to walk.

Then the question you should be asking is why superstars don't want to stay under melnyk. Shouldn't that be more concerning with Stone, Duchene, and Dzingel coming up? Btw I didn't read the article, just responding to your points.

And I get that since Melnyk seemingly isn't going anywhere, Karlsson wasn't going to stick around and so a trade was needed. I don't and most ppl knowing the circumstances would understand a trade would be needed. But waiting around this long till the eve of training camp is another example of incompetence. Or wait a little longer, build his value and trade him mid-season. Dung the Avs traded Duchene mid-season, made a killing and didn't suffer any long term effects.

It's clear as day that this was the directive to get rid of him before the start of the season and the other GMs knew this and played hardball. The management deserves every single piece of criticism coming their way for creating this mess.

EDIT: Just read the article. Didn't see anything terrible in there, only facts. Melnyk is a pathological liar and it's trickled through to the front office as well

Flo The Action

Flo The Action
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
Ev wrote:this is exactly the kind of terrible article being spewed by fans these days.


https://www.silversevensens.com/2018/9/17/17871734/the-fall-of-rome

Are people this naive? I wanted Karlsson to stay but if you really think he wanted to stay under Melnyk, you're naive, plain and simple. What else is he going to say in the media? He would never admit that he was going to walk.

No one (around here)thinks he wanted to stay under Melnyk. We can all agree (I think) that Melnyk has destroyed the Sens.

Flo The Action

Flo The Action
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
Hoff-Machine wrote:
Ev wrote:this is exactly the kind of terrible article being spewed by fans these days.


https://www.silversevensens.com/2018/9/17/17871734/the-fall-of-rome

Are people this naive? I wanted Karlsson to stay but if you really think he wanted to stay under Melnyk, you're naive, plain and simple. What else is he going to say in the media? He would never admit that he was going to walk.

Then the question you should be asking is why superstars don't want to stay under melnyk. Shouldn't that be more concerning with Stone, Duchene, and Dzingel coming up? Btw I didn't read the article, just responding to your points.

And I get that since Melnyk seemingly isn't going anywhere, Karlsson wasn't going to stick around and so a trade was needed. I don't and most ppl knowing the circumstances would understand a trade would be needed. But waiting around this long till the eve of training camp is another example of incompetence. Or wait a little longer, build his value and trade him mid-season. Dung the Avs traded Duchene mid-season, made a killing and didn't suffer any long term effects.

It's clear as day that this was the directive to get rid of him before the start of the season and the other GMs knew this and played hardball. The management deserves every single piece of criticism coming their way for creating this mess.

EDIT: Just read the article. Didn't see anything terrible in there, only facts. Melnyk is a pathological liar and it's trickled through to the front office as well

Unfortunately it’s very hard to see where the incompetence is coming from. Did Melnyk pressure to have him traded before the season or did Dorion buckle. So far it doesn’t look good for Dorion. He’s been taken to town quite a few times and twice by the same GM. In any other market he’d be fired

Ev

Ev
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
Hoff-Machine wrote:
Ev wrote:this is exactly the kind of terrible article being spewed by fans these days.


https://www.silversevensens.com/2018/9/17/17871734/the-fall-of-rome

Are people this naive? I wanted Karlsson to stay but if you really think he wanted to stay under Melnyk, you're naive, plain and simple. What else is he going to say in the media? He would never admit that he was going to walk.

Then the question you should be asking is why superstars don't want to stay under melnyk. Shouldn't that be more concerning with Stone, Duchene, and Dzingel coming up? Btw I didn't read the article, just responding to your points.

And I get that since Melnyk seemingly isn't going anywhere, Karlsson wasn't going to stick around and so a trade was needed. I don't and most ppl knowing the circumstances would understand a trade would be needed. But waiting around this long till the eve of training camp is another example of incompetence. Or wait a little longer, build his value and trade him mid-season. Dung the Avs traded Duchene mid-season, made a killing and didn't suffer any long term effects.

It's clear as day that this was the directive to get rid of him before the start of the season and the other GMs knew this and played hardball. The management deserves every single piece of criticism coming their way for creating this mess.

EDIT: Just read the article. Didn't see anything terrible in there, only facts. Melnyk is a pathological liar and it's trickled through to the front office as well

Again the terrible part was him saying karlsson clearly wanted to stay. Like how stupid can people be? Sheep being sheep

tim1_2

tim1_2
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
Flo The Action wrote:
Unfortunately it’s very hard to see where the incompetence is coming from. Did Melnyk pressure to have him traded before the season or did Dorion buckle. So far it doesn’t look good for Dorion. He’s been taken to town quite a few times and twice by the same GM. In any other market he’d be fired

It's funny that people Dung all over Dorion for the Karlsson trade. There were 30 teams that knew Karlsson was on the market. If none of them came up with a better trade package, there's nothing Dorion can do about that.

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