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Nail Yakupov Thread

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tim1_2
spader
asq2
sandysensfan
22_4_ever
NEELY
Ev
rooneypoo
wprager
PTFlea
Riprock
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16Nail Yakupov Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Nail Yakupov Thread Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:09 am

Ev


Franchise Player
Franchise Player

You just need to have good ownership and good management. That is the key to success, and why Detroit has doen well, and why Pittsburgh has done well (yes Crosby obviously helps the most, but they still have great management and ownership, and they know how to draft and build a team. Shero is one of the best GM's, and now Bylsma is one of the best coaches in the league). Chicago was crap until they started drafting well and until their terrible owner passed away.

Edmonton will get better because they now have a solid owner who cares, and decent management. Ditto Winnipeg if Chevaldayoff turs out to be a good GM, because they now have owners that truly care and are passionate about hockey and about winning hockey.

Those are thw teo keys to success. Management and ownership. It appears that Ottawa has these two things even though Eugune is a doofus sometimes.



Last edited by Big Ev on Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total

17Nail Yakupov Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Nail Yakupov Thread Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:10 am

NEELY


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Mod

Also, I am pretty sure the playoffs are a lot more exciting than the draft. Fact of the matter is you don't need to bottom out to become a competitive team and a cotender.

Why were The Sens a contender for a decade? Pretty sure Hossa, Alfi, Havlat, were not top 10 picks... Hossa and Alfi carried The Sens for a good 5 or 6 years, Alfi continues to carry them but might not be able to anymore.

Spezza is just now coming into his own, it took 10 years.

Bad team are usually because they are bad organizations. Player development counts for more than people realize along with drafting the right character and attitudes.

Tavares isn't going to do anything in NYI that Rick Nash isn't doing in COlumbus. Duchene isn't going to be anything more than Horton was in Florida. Teams are bad for a reason.

18Nail Yakupov Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Nail Yakupov Thread Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:14 am

NEELY


Mod
Mod

Big Ev wrote:You just need to have good ownership and good management. That is the key to success, and why Detroit has doen well, and why Pittsburgh has done well (yes Crosby obviously helps the most, but they still have great management and ownership, and they know how to draft and build a team). Chicago was crap until they started drafting well and until their terrible owner passed away.

Edmonton will get better because they now have a solid owner who cares, and decent management. Ditto Winnipeg if Chevaldayoff turs out to be a good GM, because they now have owners that truly care and are passionate about hockey and about winning hockey.

Those are thw teo keys to success. Management and ownership. It appears that Ottawa has these two things even though Eugune is a doofus sometimes.

Took them going bankrupt and giving the team to Mario before it turned around. Yes, they are in fantastic shape now but drafting in the top 5 for what seemed to be a decade didn't turn that organization around. 66 did.

You are very right when you say those are the 2 things that, for the most part, determine a teams success. Having a franchise player who leads the team does as well. There are very few. Crosby and Ovechkin along with Toews. In the early part of the last decade you had Sakic, Alfi, Iginla, St.Louis, Lindstrom (none of whom are top 10 picks either).

Drafting early doesn't gaurantee anything.

19Nail Yakupov Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Nail Yakupov Thread Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:15 am

Ev

Ev
Franchise Player
Franchise Player

NEELY wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:
Dash wrote:I know eh, Ev? Pittsburgh sucks. They should have made the playoffs every year and got eliminated... much better than 4 top 2 picks.

Apparently when rebuilding, the best method is to worsen your odds at a good pick by making the playoffs, as a team not projected, expected or even needing to make the playoffs only to get destroyed by a real team.




I think there's more than a little something to be said for winning as a team, building chemistry, and building a winning attitude throughout the franchise. The PIT model is only one model for building a champ. Look at VAN or DET. Other models exist, and are equally successful. We have to stop pretending that the one and only way to have a chance to win is to suck for a decade -- or that sucking for a decade automatically leads to a winning franchise. It doesn't. It hasn't helped FLA or CBJ, and the NYI are just, just starting to get out from under a decade of horrendous hockey.

Pitt wouldn't be anywhere near what they are without Crosby. The won the lotto and nothing more, they are an exception to the myth that the only way to win is by tanking. You think if Malkin was the center peice of that franchise they would be any better off than they were 6 or 7 years ago? Doubtful.

Philly, Detroit, Chicago (who didn't bottom out for years on end), NJ, are the teams that teams try and copy. NYI, Florida, Columbus, Edmonton, Atlanta, perenial bottom feeders that still suck. Wonder why?

Chicago did bottom out and got Toews and Kane. That helped, a lot. They were their backbone.

20Nail Yakupov Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Nail Yakupov Thread Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:22 am

NEELY


Mod
Mod

Kane was the lotto. The finished 5th worst, 3rd worst in their conferance (exactly where Ottawa finished last year). Keith, Sharp, Niemi, and a lot of other moves were because of good managment. They also would not have won anything if their owner didn't roll over and die.

Chicago never finished last in The NHL or their conferance, let alone doing it for 1/2 a decade like Pitt and now Edm will do.

21Nail Yakupov Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Nail Yakupov Thread Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:29 am

Riprock

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Carolina (Staal, Ward, Skinner), Anaheim (Perry, Getzlaf, Ryan), Chicago (Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Keith), Pittsburgh (Malkim, Crosby, Staal, Fleaury).

Boston is one of those exceptions, though they drafted Bergeron. But they are an attractive place which is what got them Chara and Horton among others. Thomas is their St. Louis in that he was given a shot at an older age and flourished.

Anaheim and Carolina drafted well and built around those players, UFAs wanted to play there.

I'd like Yakupov and that means a #1 overall pick. Some fans want Regin to score 50 goals and Silfverberg to be the next Datsyuk and Zibanejad the next Forsberg. No matter the spectrum, Sens fans and most other teams ans are delusional or extreme. I am the latter. For me, it's sink or swim. And when you set yourself up for first round, maybe 2nd round exits, and all you have to show for it is a few extra $$$ and a worse pick, as a fan it can be disappointing.

Hossa, Havlat, Alfredsson, Datsyuk and Zetterberg are a rare breed. It was much easier to grab a gem like that before scouting was what it is today. Sure the odd 5th-7th round pick becomes a decent player. But Detroit doesn't need to sign players to longer deals or overpay to attract players. Same with other teams. Ottawa's not one of those teams. Pittsburgh would have had a hard time signing UFAs if it wasn't for Crosby.

I'm not a huge proponent of building via free agency, so that's why I am excited about getting Yakupov. He's the kind of player the team needs. He's flashy, he's skilled, he's a natural goal scorer and he is a RW.

22Nail Yakupov Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Nail Yakupov Thread Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:31 am

Ev

Ev
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Franchise Player

NEELY wrote:Kane was the lotto. The finished 5th worst, 3rd worst in their conferance (exactly where Ottawa finished last year). Keith, Sharp, Niemi, and a lot of other moves were because of good managment. They also would not have won anything if their owner didn't roll over and die.

Chicago never finished last in The NHL or their conferance, let alone doing it for 1/2 a decade like Pitt and now Edm will do.

Similar thing with Pittsburgh. They finished last twice, but only got the 1st pick once. Staal was a #2 pick, Crosby was literally a lotto pick, Fleury 1st overall, Malkin was 2nd - they would have had Ovie if Washington didn't win the lottery. Nail Yakupov Thread - Page 2 645486and in the year they won the Cup, Malkin was more important than Crosby.

They are obviously built on Top 3 draft picks, but they still know what to do with the picks and manage very well. Same with Chicago although I do not think they are nearly as good anymore with Stan Bowman guiding the ship. Why they fired Tallon is beyond me!

What separates those two from the rest is management and ownership. Having Lemiuex as an owner is 10x better than Charles Wang!

23Nail Yakupov Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Nail Yakupov Thread Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:33 am

Ev

Ev
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Franchise Player

You listed Perry and Getzlaf and Keith but those guys were not high picks...and in Anaheim's case Perry and Getzlaf haven't done much to help the team win as they were not too important in their lone great season (Cup season).

edit: that kind of sounds stupid. I meant they were not too important in their Cup run but they are clearly their backbone NOW

24Nail Yakupov Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Nail Yakupov Thread Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:42 am

Riprock

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Karlsson wasn't a high pick either, but it still doesn't matter, because I said "good drafting". I covered all my basis. I acknowledged all sides of the argument. But there's a huge gap between Hall and say... Quinton Howden.

If you had your choice in Ovechkin or Alexandre Picard, how would you pick? Obviously a rhetorical question, I hope you get my point. Also... really Columbus, Picard? Blame Columbus scouting, cause if they had a great department, they'd have picked Radulov, Zajac, Mike Green or Wolski even. Islanders Owner doesn't want to spend money. Same with a lot of teams. It's either drafting or finances that limits them, not their draft position.

Murray's gone off the boards quite a few times... other GM's may have taken the next highest ranked player.

25Nail Yakupov Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Nail Yakupov Thread Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:43 am

22_4_ever

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There is a flip side, a team like Washington. I know they have yet to produce in the playoffs, but 2 bad years set this team up. Ovechkin picked 1st overall in 2004 (? I think ?) and then 2 years later Backstrom picked 4th overall.

Those two players are a HUGE reason (IMHO) for them turning into a contender. Just an aside but losing Bradely to me is a huge issue and will show this year in that I don't think they have a shot.

26Nail Yakupov Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Nail Yakupov Thread Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:45 am

Riprock

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Washington has done almost everything right. They set themselves up and have the best winger in the NHL and a franchise center, but until recently, they did not have great goaltender. I think Vokoun will make a difference. It's once you have those key players that you need your role players.

27Nail Yakupov Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Nail Yakupov Thread Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:45 am

NEELY


Mod
Mod

Dash wrote:Carolina (Staal, Ward, Skinner), Anaheim (Perry, Getzlaf, Ryan), Chicago (Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Keith), Pittsburgh (Malkim, Crosby, Staal, Fleaury).

Boston is one of those exceptions, though they drafted Bergeron. But they are an attractive place which is what got them Chara and Horton among others. Thomas is their St. Louis in that he was given a shot at an older age and flourished.

Anaheim and Carolina drafted well and built around those players, UFAs wanted to play there.

I'd like Yakupov and that means a #1 overall pick. Some fans want Regin to score 50 goals and Silfverberg to be the next Datsyuk and Zibanejad the next Forsberg. No matter the spectrum, Sens fans and most other teams ans are delusional or extreme. I am the latter. For me, it's sink or swim. And when you set yourself up for first round, maybe 2nd round exits, and all you have to show for it is a few extra $$$ and a worse pick, as a fan it can be disappointing.

Hossa, Havlat, Alfredsson, Datsyuk and Zetterberg are a rare breed. It was much easier to grab a gem like that before scouting was what it is today. Sure the odd 5th-7th round pick becomes a decent player. But Detroit doesn't need to sign players to longer deals or overpay to attract players. Same with other teams. Ottawa's not one of those teams. Pittsburgh would have had a hard time signing UFAs if it wasn't for Crosby.

I'm not a huge proponent of building via free agency, so that's why I am excited about getting Yakupov. He's the kind of player the team needs. He's flashy, he's skilled, he's a natural goal scorer and he is a RW.

How are any of those players unique to a bottom feeder? It's all about player development. What has Carolina or Anahiem won with Skinner or Ryan? Both nice players for sure but there are no results as of yet.

28Nail Yakupov Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Nail Yakupov Thread Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:49 am

NEELY


Mod
Mod

22_4_ever wrote:There is a flip side, a team like Washington. I know they have yet to produce in the playoffs, but 2 bad years set this team up. Ovechkin picked 1st overall in 2004 (? I think ?) and then 2 years later Backstrom picked 4th overall.

Those two players are a HUGE reason (IMHO) for them turning into a contender. Just an aside but losing Bradely to me is a huge issue and will show this year in that I don't think they have a shot.


I'm not gonan sit here and say that drafting in the top 5 won't help a franchise long term, but the best teams (long terms) always find a way to draft the best players and develop them.

For every Pitts there is a Florida, for every Chicago there is a Columbus. The point is failing doesn't gaurantee anything.

Is this years 1st overall going to be an Ovechkin or a Daigle? Will he fall somewhere in the middle? Will the best player from the draft even be a top 10 pick? Winning organizations try to win every night, week, year.

29Nail Yakupov Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Nail Yakupov Thread Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:50 am

NEELY


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Mod

Dash wrote:Washington has done almost everything right. They set themselves up and have the best winger in the NHL and a franchise center, but until recently, they did not have great goaltender. I think Vokoun will make a difference. It's once you have those key players that you need your role players.

Debatable. As far as I know they still have Semin there.

Then you have a team like Colorado who is drafting all the right talent it seems but is making all the wrong decisions off the ice. That team will fail because of awful coaching and managment.

30Nail Yakupov Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Nail Yakupov Thread Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:50 am

Riprock

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Ward has won a Conn Smythe and Stanley Cup. Skinner won the Calder, that says quite a lot. Ryan has scored no less than 30 goals in his past 3 seasons in the NHL. That's something not to many Sens picks can say in the past 5 years.

Only thing any Sens have done, is win the Calder Cup, and that was only a few guys that actually played in Ottawa. Last Senator two win an award was Aflie? I know that awards are individual and the only hardware that matters is Stanley, but teams that have a player worthy of an award are good teams.

31Nail Yakupov Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Nail Yakupov Thread Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:51 am

Riprock

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NEELY wrote:
Dash wrote:Washington has done almost everything right. They set themselves up and have the best winger in the NHL and a franchise center, but until recently, they did not have great goaltender. I think Vokoun will make a difference. It's once you have those key players that you need your role players.

Debatable. As far as I know they still have Semin there.

Then you have a team like Colorado who is drafting all the right talent it seems but is making all the wrong decisions off the ice. That team will fail because of awful coaching and managment.

Hence the "almost" Wink....

32Nail Yakupov Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Nail Yakupov Thread Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:56 am

NEELY


Mod
Mod

Dash wrote:Ward has won a Conn Smythe and Stanley Cup. Skinner won the Calder, that says quite a lot. Ryan has scored no less than 30 goals in his past 3 seasons in the NHL. That's something not to many Sens picks can say in the past 5 years.

Only thing any Sens have done, is win the Calder Cup, and that was only a few guys that actually played in Ottawa. Last Senator two win an award was Aflie? I know that awards are individual and the only hardware that matters is Stanley, but teams that have a player worthy of an award are good teams.

Wasn't a lotto pick, I believe he was 25th or around there. Skinner was a nice draft pick, no doubt about it. Staal was one player drafted in the top 3 that they have on their team, that's it. They won a Cup because of a lot of other moves and because Ward pulled the "once every 20 years or so" BS.

There are more top 5 picks that have not turned into franchise players than actually have.

33Nail Yakupov Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Nail Yakupov Thread Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:57 am

Ev

Ev
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Franchise Player

Oh I agree with the Sens having done nothing to prove that they are going to be contenders soon. Winning the Calder Cup isn't the biggest deal as most players on that team will not play in the NHL.

This year though, you will be able to get a potential star forward later than usual as this is the year of the defenseman, so Ottawa does not need to tank. I don't even think Yakupov will go first overall this year...

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